As it turns out, the Ripper Cabal is real...it's just not who you thought it was

[lynn cates]

? and the Mysterians

Hello Tom. Thanks. Besides the top 3 tiers, there are a further 93--which, by my math, makes 96 tiers. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn. Which among them are the tiers of a clown? Oh wait, that's clearly Tier 2.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the heads-up.

Good to know I'm in the premiere league of cabalists.

Regards,

Simon

[Cogidubnus]

Just a minor and awkward question..if my views don't coincide with yours does this make me part of some cabal? Either Trevors or yours? Imagined or Real?

Trevor's unpopular - his views and methods of expressing them don't make him popular - and far be it for me to defend either him or them...personally I think he's often misguided and speaks out of turn...but he is after all entitled to his views...likewise Phil, Lynn, Simon and some of the other's youve named...

In all honesty I think the self-congratulationary views expressed in this thread are quite disgusting and ought to be taken down. In saying so in such strong terms I realise I will make myself unpopular, (but not as divisive as you've made yourselves).

I don't have the courage or convictions of this bloke, but I can at least make a small stand, and if I get kicked off Casbook, well hey...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I won't make a formal complaint (I argue my own arguments) but I recommend you consider your positions...all of you...are you proud?

All the best

Dave

[Simon Wood]

Hi Dave,

Here's a prediction.

Take down all the "disgusting" and "self-congratulatory" views expressed on these boards and you're doomed never to think anything new. In twenty years' time you'll still be arguing the same old tired nonsense which brought us all together in the first place.

There are some contrary but dedicated researchers out there, and self-aggrandisement has nothing to do with all their hard work. But never mind. Have the courage of your pompous convictions and make a formal complaint.

It could be a blessing in disguise.

Regards,

Simon

[Cogidubnus]

So it's not possible to come up with anything fresh without being for example self-congratulatory? I don't think that's the case you're trying to argue...

And Trevor, after all, presumably thinks his approach is fresh...

You think I'm pompous? Maybe I am...mea culpa...as far as I'm concerned I just like to see an even playing field without folk ganging up on one another...but I'm sorry, perhaps that's unforgivably old-fashioned

All the best

Dave

[Dr. John Watson]

So it's not possible to come up with anything fresh without being for example self-congratulatory? I don't think that's the case you're trying to argue...

And Trevor, after all, presumably thinks his approach is fresh...

You think I'm pompous? Maybe I am...mea culpa...as far as I'm concerned I just like to see an even playing field without folk ganging up on one another...but I'm sorry, perhaps that's unforgivably old-fashioned

All the best

Dave

Cogidubnus: Well put, and for what it's worth, agree with everything you said in both posts.

Supportive John

[Simon Wood]

Hi Dave,

I recommend you take a long, hard look at exactly who's ganging up on whom.

Regards,

Simon

[Ally]

You bet I am damn proud. You think you are taking such a brave stand? I find it galling that anyone would dare compare this to a nazi witch hunt. Let me tell you something- for the past ten years, every fukking time I made an unpopular statement, I got reported. I got reported and accepted suspension for crap that NOT A SINGLE OTHER PERSON would have even been looked at askance and I took it because there couldn't be a perception of bias. I have been suspended more times than ANY other person on this board, over the most trivial and piddly sh!t and I have taken it with good grace, because I understand that regardless, I will be held to a different standard. Well you know what - FUK THAT. When I see people come on and say "oh I am being brave and if I get banned, I'll take it" I have an overwhelming urge to beat them senseless with their keyboard (and don't take that wrong, Dave I am pretty sure I like you personally). There is not a single other person who has been suspended more than I, and I have been suspended for less cause than any freaking body. So (and this goes for everyone) knock off the "I am so brave to take a stand and risk being banned". It's frankly galling to a degree beyond belief.

Trevor Marriott has LIED repeatedly about people on these boards. FLAT OUT LIED and he's still here, to sucker stupid people into his deceitful, nasty, tricks. He takes pride and delight in tearing down absolutely everyone for nothing they have done, but simply because he seemingly takes DELIGHT in destroying the reputations of other people. Maybe that's not his primary motive, I don't know, but I cannot come up with any other reason. He accused researchers of having stolen evidence, based on not a single shred of evidence, but just an instance of, hey let's throw mud at them and see if it sticks.

I am a bitch. I have always been a bitch and I am proud to be a bitch. I have fought with EVERY single prominent member of Ripperology. I have gone head to head and toe to toe with Paul Begg, Martin Fido, Melvin Harris, Stewart Evans, and you name it, I've had words with their theories, their beliefs, their stands, but not ONCE have I ever lied about them in an attempt to bolster my own position. I have never, not once, cared about WHO I am speaking to, all I care about is the TRUTH. I have gotten reviled for standing up for the truth over the person, and I NEVER put a personal relationship over that truth. I can like you personally tremendously and still say, you are completely in the wrong. And if that strikes me off your "friend" list, you weren't a friend to begin with. In addition, I can despise you on a personal level, and defend you if you are in the right and have the truth on your side. The only thing that matters is the truth and that's the ONLY thing I take into consideration whenever I decide to go head to head with any one. Which puts me in a far different category than Marriott. I don't agree with everything that every one has done that has come before, but there is a difference in disagreeing and trying to destroy. One is a positive step, that brings about real knowledge to the case, and the other is simply perverse for the sake of being perverse.

Marriott has not ever just admitted he was wrong. I make mistakes, I've made them and I apologize and I retract them when they occur. He and his posse seem entirely incapable of just EVER admitting they were wrong, that they did something wrong and apologizing for it. They are incapable, even when flat out, proved beyond a shadow of doubt or question to be wrong.

HOW can you ever claim to care about the truth when you can't ever face the truth ? He has SLANDERED people, and you ask US if we are proud to take a stand against this crap? You bet your butt I am entirely proud. He makes insinuations against the whole of Ripperology that WE WE have an interest in hiding the truth for profit while he goes about lecturing without half the facts in his head and making the rest up out of thin air.

It has NOTHING to do with being unpopular or expressing unpopular opinions. You should have been here 11 years ago when I was expressing opinions that the A-Z authors had acted dishonorably in one of their entries. How UNPOPULAR was I then?? But I never ONCE lied about them. I never slandered them. I asked questions, and I gave my opinions and I stood my ground. I behaved with integrity. I don't AGREE with every popular opinion, but I am capable of looking at facts that prove me wrong, and accepting my defeat with good grace. If you look back over the posts, I have made repeated errors when I mistook something for fact and I ALWAYS but ALWAYS retract my statements when I realize I have made a mistake about someone or something I have read.

Point to me one time when they have done the same? This is not a witchhunt. This is not a group of people going after someone just because they have an unpopular opinion. This is a group of people who are fed up with being lied to, with being slandered, and watching while they are insulted and defamed and their hard work is dismissed and lied about by some clown and his posse who have limited knowledge of the case, and pat themselves on the back, not for doing any actual work, but tearing down the work of others. (And I have done jack crap work, on that note I am speaking about others, people who slog doing the dirty work of rifling through stacks of old papers in the hopes of striking a gem, something I have not the patience for).

You ask if we are proud, and I answer again, yes. Because unless people stand up against lies, lies always win. Lies are always more interesting than truth. There's a saying that a lie can run around the world while the truth is still getting its boots on. Well guess what, boots are on, and it's time to start kicking.

[Tom_Wescott]

I think Dave might be talking about me here, even though my posts on this thread wouldn't warrant his pointy finger. Or a hypocrite (my fave). But every now and again he pops up to call me a pompous bully or whatnot. If he's NOT talking about me here, then apparently he's just one of those guys who needs to vent every now again and stick up for the 'under dog' (whatever that is in Ripperology). Other than these occassional outbursts, Dave seems really cool. I think he just hasn't found the Cabal for him yet.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. What is 'self-congratulatory' in the sense used here? I can't speak for everyone else, but I much prefer when OTHERS are doing the congratulating.

[Ally]

Get real Tom. You don't have the power to ban people. Everyone knows, that power lies solely in my hands.

Quit trying to make everything about you, you egomaniacal tool.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Ally,

Don't try to kid a kidder.

I've been on the receiving end of your integrity.

Regards,

Simon

[Ally]

Really? Do tell of one time I have behaved with any sort of deceit in regards to you, dear Simon.

[Tom_Wescott]

Okay, I just read Ally's post. I get the whole 'self-congratulatory' thing now.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ally]

Okay, I just read Ally's post. I get the whole 'self-congratulatory' thing now.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I thought I exemplified it pretty well, glad you picked up on it. But then I didn't go for subtle so even you should have got it.