Pastor Urges Parents to "Man Up" and Punch Effeminate Children

[mariab]

No problem, DrummondStreet.

I agree with the posters that say that fathers from broken families need to step up, spend more time with their children and provide that much needed male influence. However, it isn't always their fault. Courts usually give primary custody to the mother. As a result, fathers will have less time with their kids no matter how much they would like to be with them.

Absolutely. Though for many men with kids it's simply also convenient to be the secondary provider, and society excuses it easier than for a woman.
And let's not exaggerate about "broken homes". Is it worse for a kid to grow up with just one parent or with parents leading separate lives, esp. if the parent(s) in question are intelligent and doing good in their life, rather than grow up in a farm with mom and pops and grandma and grandpa and a bunch of animals?
Is there any non divorced family that isn't "dysfunctional" in their own way and haven't messed up their kids to some extent with their neuroses when bringing them up? There are tons of non-divorced families where the kids don't speak to one or both parents when they've grown up.
And as for "the much needed male influence", can this thing be really defined? What if the kid's dad is a nerd who never hit a ball in his life, or is on unemployment (esp. with the current financial crisis), and the mother's an accomplished athlete or a career woman, or both? The kid's gonna pick things accordingly from both parents' personalities and from their respective friends.
Anyway, gotta go, gender discussions bore me to death. ;-)

[Tom_Wescott]

Sports, absentee fathers, and random stuff

I frankly don't understand sports, but I respect the fact that so many other people enjoy them. I'm more cerebral in my pursuits, and no doubt to some that might be 'effeminate'. I also had long hair most of my life and was a rocker during the glam era. But even I must say there are way too many wussy males coming up these days. Drop a frickin' ball already. And a lot more gays than there used to be, but that's the 'in' thing now.

Back to sports. Not to sound like a treehugger, but I'm bothered by any sport that involves animals, other than of course dog shows where they get petted, treated, and spoiled. But sports where some or all of the participants are not in it of their own free will is not cool. I also think this TV show 'Tiaras and Toddlers' or whatever is repulsive and sick. I recall back only 15 or so years ago to the JonBenet case and remember the nation's outrage at learning about these types of glamour shows with toddlers. Absolute outrage and condemnation. Now these same people support a weekly dose of it and cheer them on?

And yes, men need to take care of their kids. That's a fact. Even if the relationship with the mother dissolves, you're a complete and total loser for not being in the kid's life, teaching him things, and of course paying child support. My earlier comment was not meant to disparage single mothers. I was raised by one. My dad always paid his child support and had us down a few times a year, but once I turned 18, he never called again, no birthday cards, nothing. In fact, I don't believe I've seen him since I was in 8th grade. But total douche though he was, he lived up to his parental and legal obligations, so I don't see why so many others fail to do so.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

And a lot more gays than there used to be, but that's the 'in' thing now.

You can't possibly think that sexual orientation is a matter of fashion?!

I completely agree about children's peageants etc., and the Ramsey case brought it up to the surface for the American public to see. There's been a similar condemnation of gymnastics and figure skating as "child abuse", but I disagree. These sports are super hard (MUCH harder than American football or ice hockey) and stressful, but it's still an amazing accomplishment.

Hope not to overstep my bounds by saying this Tom, but I'd never pegged you as raised by a single mother. Somehow I expected you to have been brought up by a real macho dad and a housewife, lol. In my childhood it was kinda similar, though my parents remained married (though for the most part leading their separate lives). From when I was a wee one, it was clear my dad was the one you could never rely upon. An actor, frequently depressed and unemployed, reading in bed until 3 a.m., sleeping until noon. He had an amazing book collection and had read just about everything, from Shakespeare to history to pulp fiction, and that was about it. You could hardly even talk to him, he was completely self-absorbed with his problems. My mom was the doctor, the one who took care of everything, pushed me into doing good in school, learning things (I guess she might have overdone it and created a monster, lol!). Plus my mom used to beat the sh*t out of me, up until about age 11 (when I started to rebel) I was completely terrified of her. I guess my family situation was kinda like in A tree grows in Brooklyn, only that my dad was not an alcoholic and half as much fun as Johnny Nolan, lol.

Before this thread gets all psycho-drama and a hug party, I happen to firmly believe that whatever one's parents were, one's bound to have been inflicted some kind of trauma. And maybe we should leave it at that.

[jason_c]

If the need is a male influence, we need to target absent fathers rather than blame single mothers?
Men...get your act together...think of a way to get these men to bring up their sons?!

Why cant we target both?

Absent fathers couldnt care less about there kids and single mums are happy enough living off the state.

[Debra A]

I'd thumbs up this except for one bit...Men need to bring up their daughters too.

Well, that goes without saying, Ally. I only mentioned boys as they were the subject under discussion.

Why cant we target both?

You can, Jason. I was just suggesting a way that men could perhaps get more involved and help their own sex out with a situation some feel is detrimental to them...being brought up by a single woman.

[Robert]

One guy who brought up his kids was Cronos. Long time ago though.

[Errata]

I still don't understand why "effeminate" boys have to be "fixed". What is the inherent problem? And what is the operating definition of effeminate? Plays with dolls? Care for personal appearance? Dislike of sports? What is effeminate? And what is so wrong with it that we are blaming parents and the school system for creating it, or nurturing it, or simply failing to quash it?

[mariab]

One guy who brought up his kids was Cronos. Long time ago though.

You mean like, he brought them up AFTER the fact? As in, indigestion?

(Wonder how many people will get the pun.)

[Limehouse]

I still don't understand why "effeminate" boys have to be "fixed". What is the inherent problem? And what is the operating definition of effeminate? Plays with dolls? Care for personal appearance? Dislike of sports? What is effeminate? And what is so wrong with it that we are blaming parents and the school system for creating it, or nurturing it, or simply failing to quash it?

I absolutely agree, Errata. Gender behaviour is a social construct. God never, ever said that females should wear dresses and males should wear trousers. Would this paster tell parents to punch girls who go through a tom boy stage? Would he punch girls who wear jeans? I'd like to take a punch at him! Moron!

[DrummondStreet]

And as for "the much needed male influence", can this thing be really defined?

I'm struggling to define it, too. I don't want to bore you with too much gender discussion but I do know that children often interact differently with adults according to both the gender of the child and the gender of the adult and there is a biological basis to it.

My own father is a nerdy university science professor type who shuns sports but he is definitely more "masculine" in his outlook than my nurturing, tries-to-see-the-good-in-everyone mother. Male and female brains function differently on a number of levels, and this affects not just behavior but worldview/politics. I think children need a lot of early and continuous exposure to both genders (and gender differences) to better prepare them for an ideologically complex world that is roughly 50% male and 50% female.

[DrummondStreet]

I still don't understand why "effeminate" boys have to be "fixed". What is the inherent problem?

I absolutely agree, Errata. The pastor in question is a hateful, sexist bigot. I try to be tolerant, but I can't tolerate hate or cruelty to children who are just "different."

[Robert]

There seem to be a lot of pastors, preachers etc in America. Do they pass exams and get appointed to these positions, or can anyone open a church?

[mariab]

Would this paster tell parents to punch girls who go through a tom boy stage?

Noone would dare punch a girl going through a tom boy stage. However, maybe someone ought to punch a girl going through a Tom Wescott stage. Or not?

There seem to be a lot of pastors, preachers etc in America. Do they pass exams and get appointed to these positions, or can anyone open a church?

No clue, but there's one less of them running around. An ex Ripperologist, real good too, specialized in Druitt.

[Errata]

There seem to be a lot of pastors, preachers etc in America. Do they pass exams and get appointed to these positions, or can anyone open a church?

Both. Most pastors and minister here are officially ordained by the branch they belong to, and most have at least a bachelors in divinity (or some related major). Most have also attended a seminary of some sort.

But some guys just claim that the spirit of god moves them and they open their own church. For example, "the Church of the Bloody Nail" (true story) is operated by a guy who started preaching as a 13 year old. so...

I guess it just depends on what kind of quality control a congregation is going to insist on.

[Robert]

Well I thought that gays were born, not made. Prolonged exposure to Barbara Streisand's singing might put a chap off women, but apart from that I don't see the point in telling people not to be gay.