Pastor Urges Parents to "Man Up" and Punch Effeminate Children

[c.d.]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/02/north-carolina-pastor-sean-harris-urges-parents-to-man-up-and-punch-effeminate-children/

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

Punch them? That's ridiculous. But too many kids these days are coddled far too much, and that's the parents fault. Of course, that might have to do with most kids being raised by single mothers. It's no surprise the end result would be more effeminate men.

But when I was a kid, spanking by teachers was still allowed in schools (it was called 'swatting' here). It certainly didn't make me more manly, but it did embarrass and humiliate and cause me to call my teacher's home, imitating a female voice, and tell his wife that he had cheated with me. It was worth the swats. Oh, I long for those bygone days before caller ID.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Chris Scott]

The pastor's speech is, in my opinion, a mixture of the ridiculous and the misguided.
The ridiculous component is the unfounded opinion that boys who, in his opinion, are acting in an effeminate manner will of necessity grow to adulthood as homosexuals. This assumes two unfounded ideas:-
1) All boys who exhibit an interest in activities deemed "feminine" will grow up as homosexuals - this is completely unfounded.
2) All adult homosexuals are effeminate and were effeminate as children. Again this is entirely without foundation.

The misguided part of the pastor's "rant" (as the article deems it to be) is that I would certainly agree that in many respects the upbringing regime of a lot of today's children is overprotective, risk averse and denies many children any chance of experimenting with independence, exploration and trial and error.
I'm not sure there is any evidence that boys raised by single mothers are, by nature, more effeminate. But my main worry is the near total feminisation of the education system. In this, of course, I can only talk about the situation in the UK. In primary education (up to age 11) the percentage of male teacher is in single figures. The vast majority of boys go through primary education without any male influence on their development at all. If a boy is also from a female single parent family, there may well be virtually no male influence on his upbringing at all. Again, I do not think that necessarily produces boys who are effeminate, but I find it worrying.
In secondary education (11 to A level) the number of male teachers, while higher than in primary schools, is considerably lower than formerly.
I personally find the reasons for this worrying in that there is a largely unspoken but certainly prevalent opinion that male teachers must, purely on the basis of their gender, be vetted ans checked more rigorously than women. The undeniable attitude in education and in a number of the caring services (such as social services) is that men are intrinsically more of a threat to children than a woman.
A friend of mine who is in his 30s is a very good, very motivated and highly qualified teacher and youth worker. He applied for a job at a primary school two years ago and went along to the interview. He was the only male candidate. The three person interviewing panel was all female. He expected that the questions, as at other interviews, would be about his work history, his experience, his results in other schools etc. Not a bit of it. He told me (and he is in no way over sensitive or paranoid) that from the very start the whole thrust of the questions was "Why do you want to work with children?" The questions were posed in an almost accusatory manner and my friend - who is a model of patience and forbearance - finally simply walked out and said he found the proceedings offensive.
Weekly, sometimes daily, we have newspaper headlines about how much better girls are than boys - academically, socially etc etc. In those areas where this is not the case then calls are made for positive discrimination measures to favour girls more. As an example of this only today there is a widely reported call that school sports - which apparently girls don't enjoy as much as deemed they should - should be made more girl friendly and less competitive. Sadly I am sure this will happen. To a large extent the competitive nature of boys has been largely weaned out of the school curriculum and competitive sports dropped.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2138182/Grubby-changing-rooms-embarrassment-getting-sweaty-boys-mean-PE-lessons-putting-girls-exercise-life.html

"Sue Tibballs, of the Women’s Sport and Fitness Foundation, which carried out the study, said: ‘If the only activities on offer are competitive sports like netball and hockey, you are going to have whole swathes of girls who feel pushed out and don’t want to do exercise.
'That continues into their adulthood.’
She warned that teachers were finding it increasingly difficult to get their pupils enthused by sport because girls were ‘worried about their hair and nails’.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Chris. That must be a British thing. Over here in the states, everyone loves their high school football (which leads to college football and the NFL) and it's rare you hear anyone pushing for a girl's football team. Why? Because girls don't want to play football and nobody would want to watch it. Having said that, of course there are many school sports girls can take part in and it's been that way a very long time. My mom played high school basketball and she graduated in 1958. But there have long been irrefutable medical studies that show girls who play sports a lot are screwing up their bodies, and remarkably no one seems to care. It's as though even nature itself must take a backseat to political correctness.

There's a massive difference between equal treatment and special treatment. I say that if a woman wants to join the fire department, she should be expected to pass all the same physical exams as the men and be treated equally, and if she does so, should be employed as a man would. If she can't, she should go home, just like countless men do who can't make the grade. Same in sports and everything else. To me, this is equal rights, so it astounds me how anyone could see it as sexism.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ally]

Yeah just like all those studies that show boys who play football/sports are screwing up their bodies and brains and no one seems to care. Because it's all about "political correctness".

It has nothing to do with gender. Repetitive contact or high stress sports of any kind destroy male and female bodies.

You have to love Tom. He is a MASTER at ignoring the facts that disprove his statements and focusing only on the ones that feeds his misogyny.

[Errata]

Well, this prompts a couple of questions.

Since "feminine" and "masculine" are not only culturally defined, with no two cultures agreeing on the same definitions, and with the definitions changing all the time...

What exactly is "effeminate"?

And given the fact that I am female, and I think I'm a pretty good person to be, as are most of the women of my aquaintance...

What exactly is so wrong with being effeminate?

On the other hand, since in my own culture I am something of an abnormality in not giving a crap about appearance, clothes, never played with dolls, am not comfortable in skirts or dresses, don't own makeup...

If there is something inherently wrong with men being "effeminate" is there something wrong with my NOT being "effeminate"? Despite the praise I get from my male friends for being more "reasonable" and "more like them"?

[jason_c]

Yeah just like all those studies that show boys who play football/sports are screwing up their bodies and brains and no one seems to care. Because it's all about "political correctness".

It has nothing to do with gender. Repetitive contact or high stress sports of any kind destroy male and female bodies.

You have to love Tom. He is a MASTER at ignoring the facts that disprove his statements and focusing only on the ones that feeds his misogyny.

Competitive sport will obviously have both its benefits and drawbacks. If people wish to risk there body and brain in the name of sport then thats fine. Any activity will have risk attached to it. Mankind has long distinguished history of individuals competing against one another physically. I cant speak for women but men's self esteem is often linked to how gifted they are in competitive sport.

[mariab]

call my teacher's home, imitating a female voice, and tell his wife that he had cheated with me. It was worth the swats. Oh, I long for those bygone days before caller ID.

Reminds me of some stupid, truly ridiculous stuff we were doing playing with the phonebook with my best male friend when we were about 10. At school we also used to spritz a (male) teacher's clothes with cheap perfume with water guns, like Meg Ryan and Matthew Broderick do in that movie by Griffin Dune, what's it called.

Over here in the states, everyone loves their high school football (which leads to college football and the NFL) and it's rare you hear anyone pushing for a girl's football team. Why? Because girls don't want to play football and nobody would want to watch it.

There's nothing more effeminate than American football. A bunch of grossly overpayed, whiney fatsos trying to play rugby wearing unnecessary protective gear. Ask what the Aussies and the South Africans think about this. Ever heard of Australian Rules Football?
On the other side, American female soccer does much better than in Europe. No surprise here, since the lack of tradition probably helped the idea of females engaging in it. I used to play soccer for a couple years in college. Quit it when snowboarding entered into my life, and almost immediately tons of other things had to go, lol.

But there have long been irrefutable medical studies that show girls who play sports a lot are screwing up their bodies, and remarkably no one seems to care. It's as though even nature itself must take a backseat to political correctness.

It's pretty obvious you're not a jock or an outdoorsy person, Tom. Noone goes into sports for political correctness. If one gets into a sport activity big time, the addiction factor can become very strong, and sometimes EVERYTHING else ends up taking a backseat. Money, work, personal life. Esp. with those kinds of sports which are more of a lifestyle and a counterculture than a mere sports activity. Think about how much Ripperology has taken up your life. Now multiply this by about a million, and you might get what it feels to be a surfer/snowboarder.
You've seen pics of mine while surfing and snowboarding. Does it look like I've "screwed up my body"? In some of them I'm bleeding from different body parts and from my noggin. Did I smile the less, or do you think that made me stop?

It has nothing to do with gender. Repetitive contact or high stress sports of any kind destroy male and female bodies.

This is correct, but any athlete worth their salt will tell you it's worth the experiences. Olympian multiple gold medalist Evgeni Plushenko (and I deliberately chose a guy some might be tempted to call "effeminate") once said that "Every serious athlete is more or less permanently injured, be it through the repetitive stress." Esp. if jumps and hard landings are involved. It's a lifestyle choice. And in many cases it rather chooses you than you choose it, lol.

[DrummondStreet]

But too many kids these days are coddled far too much, and that's the parents fault. Of course, that might have to do with most kids being raised by single mothers.

Rubbish. Single mothers are far less likely to coddle their children than married parents. Single parents (dads or moms) simply don't have the time, energy, or resources to overindulge their children. No, I'm not a defensive single parent (or any parent) but a number of my friends have children. It's been my observation that the kids who are the most over-coddled live in two parent households.

I do agree with you that children are increasingly over-coddled and over-sheltered, however.

[Debra A]

If the need is a male influence, we need to target absent fathers rather than blame single mothers?
Men...get your act together...think of a way to get these men to bring up their sons?!

[mariab]

DrummondStreet sounds like he's right on this. Unless we're talking rich single parents. Plus not all women are "girlie" by nature.
Conducting a mini-statistics on the 3 single mothers I know from my circle of friends: Single mother #1, seller for Armani at a Berlin mall: son super spoiled, she pays for his car at age 21 and can't afford a drink when she goes out. Son's doing an MBA and raps, lol. Single mother #2, a lawyer in Greece, rich from her parents: son super intelligent and already a computer nerd at 10. Could be called a bit "effeminate" or at least "nerdy", though he's gonna look real handsome when he grows up. Single mother #3, a teacher in Germany, in financial dire straits. 2 sons sorta macho (in a good way), attractive, big time into soccer and karate. Interestingly enough, their mother isn't into sports at all herself. Plus they can't stand their dad, who plays off all he makes in casinos. When he (forcibly) visits, they set off.
Guy I'm dating in Paris has 2 sons, but they live only part-time with him. They get along great. Too young to say if they're "effeminate".

I'm not interested in having kids, but if I had one (boy or girl) the poor creature would have had it real bad, lol. It would have to learn to surf, snowboard, wakeboard, skate, ice skate, cook, speak 4 languages, play several instruments just to keep up with the "family life". On the upside, it would have learned all that simply by hanging out with me, not required to pay a dime for a coach or teacher.

[DrummondStreet]

DrummondStreet sounds like he's right on this.

Thanks mariab. But why does everyone on here think I'm a guy? I am most definitely a woman; I have 2 X-chromosomes, ovaries, and "suffer" from a chocolate addiction.

Not trying to pick on you, maria --it's just that being mistaken for a dude has happened to me one too many times on this forum and it's making me a bit nervous.

[Ally]

If the need is a male influence, we need to target absent fathers rather than blame single mothers?
Men...get your act together...think of a way to get these men to bring up their sons?!

I'd thumbs up this except for one bit...Men need to bring up their daughters too.

[mariab]

To Drummond Street:
Sorry for having mistaken your gender identity. Some peeps posting on this thread would take this as a compliment, esp. pertaining to your expected abilities on rising "non effeminate" kids. Lol. The thing is, I most certainly wasn't thinking about "gender" when reading/responding to your post. In my book, thinking too much about "gender" appears quite a bit neurotic. I say, just keep doing whatever feels good doing and live your life how you wanna live it without caring if other people find it "fitting" or "non fitting" to stupid stereotypes. And this includes your chocolate addiction. (Which I had no idea it was supposed to be a "female predilection", and incidentally I don't really share it.)
Welcome to casebook, DrummondStreet.

[DrummondStreet]

Hi Maria,

Thanks for the welcome. My response was mostly in jest; I'm actually amused by the gender confusion more than anything .


I agree with the posters that say that fathers from broken families need to step up, spend more time with their children and provide that much needed male influence. However, it isn't always their fault. Courts usually give primary custody to the mother. As a result, fathers will have less time with their kids no matter how much they would like to be with them.

**I assume that the posters ahead of me were referring to dead-beat dads and not the ones I just described. I just wanted to point out that divorce/custody contribute to the problem, too.