What offends you?

[Limehouse]

Its a job to keep up with what is or isnt offensive or bigotted these days. Fashions change it seems.
Not so long ago ,to even question whether or not there was a problem with Immigration numbers was enough to bring about catcalls of Racist! Bigot!.In some cases your job might even have been put at risk......Then the "powers " that made those rules in the first place, suddenly decided that questioning immigration wasnt so racis t or bigoted after all...Which must have "offended" the anti-nazi league and their hangers on immensely
Like most others here who have posted,nothing much really offends me, anyway, not to the extent Im gonna go waving banners around ,or demanding someone is sacked.
Fleetwood ,of course is correct when he warns against the spectre of Tumbrils trundling down Whitehall "full to the gunwales" with non conformists,free-thinkers,non labour voters and Bernard Manning fans" etc..................From tiny acorns ,mighty oak trees grow.

What a load of old tosh! Who ever passed a law that stated you can't discuss immigration? And why are you so amused at the idea of the anti-nazi league being offended? I would have thought most level-headed people would be against nazis.

[glyn]

What a load of old tosh! Who ever passed a law that stated you can't discuss immigration? And why are you so amused at the idea of the anti-nazi league being offended? I would have thought most level-headed people would be against nazis.

Thanks for you kind words.I didnt mention laws being passed.Remember Michael Howard ,and the abuse he received when he questioned Immigration policies? Perhaps you have forgotten (conveniently) he is but one of a considerable number.The Labour supporter who commented to Brownie regarding immigration during election campaign and was labelled a bigot by the leader of the loony party himself.Laws? your kind dont need laws passed,it interferes somewhat with your agenda.
Why am I amused about the Anti-nazi league? Well there are several reasons,the main reason being that the Anti nazi league are responsible for more violence thabn the groups they protest about.They are merely the Left wing loonies "storm troopers"
Left wing organised violence is no better than Right wing violence.You appear to glorify one ,yet condone the other.Which is somewhat typical maybe.

[Rubyretro]

My experiences on the continent are not ones of there being a thought police. You have the right to say what you want, but the chances are others will use their right to tell you exactly why they disagree.

Tomtom -I'm English , but have lived in France for 26 years. Don't be fooled by superficial appearances. look up the case of comedian Dieudonné and see that he can't get away with being antisemite..

..and quite right, too.

Personally, I'm with Limehouse.

The French certainly have the most sexist ads and jokes about naked women -but the reality is that a woman would have more chance of being taken seriously and being treated as a 'professional' in her job, than she would in England. Witness the career of Martine Aubry, who doesn't need a 'makeover' to try for the presidency -I just can't imagine the French making 'jokes' about her physique or sex life. They attack the policies of Marine Le Pen -not the fact that she's a woman. Maybe 'political correctness'
is just different here -but it does exist.

It is absolutely evident that there is rascism against the many North Africans living in France (you can see the rise of the Extreme Right) -but I can't imagine that anyone could just walk around sticking 'no Arabs' in their shop windows.

Everyone seems to hate 'political correctness' on this thread (except Limehouse) -I think that it's a good thing when not taken to ridiculous extremes. For example, the Daily Mail is always cocking-a-snook at 'political correctness' -but if you read the hate filled comments posted by readers after biased and immflamatory articles, you would (I hope !) be on the side of the people they attack.

Of course we all want freedom of thought and speech -but as another thread on Casebook ably demonstrated (whether religious bigots should have the right to give their opinions on the Irak war at the funerals of American servicemen) -one person's 'freedom' ends where another begins.

ps: personally, I get offended by people, too ! Of course I do, I'm human.

[TomTomKent]

I don't have a problem with political correctness. I just think people argue against itwhen theyare actually arguing against common human decency.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I am not trying to force anything on you. You can be a offensive as you wish and I shall go on being respectful.

Does this mean you value tolerance while accepting the individual's opportunity to chase his/her own values, tolerant or otherwise?

If so, we're in agreement.

[Rubyretro]

P.S. -and another thing..

"political correctness" has made the lives of some people immeasurably better.

Limehouse used the example of 'spastics'. Well knowing some people who are certainly 'all there' with their brains, but have problems with their bodies -if laws, and conventions of our society mean that such people can go out unmocked by morons -so much the better.

I also have met a number of cross dressers through an internet site devoted to Fashion. Believe me they are just as intelligent and interesting, as people on Casebook (they often do the same jobs as you). If "political correctness" means that they can go out and shop and not be abused and discriminated against -so much the better.

[Rubyretro]

I don't have a problem with political correctness. I just think people argue against itwhen theyare actually arguing against common human decency.

Then we agree totally.

[Fleetwood Mac]

What a load of old tosh! Who ever passed a law that stated you can't discuss immigration? And why are you so amused at the idea of the anti-nazi league being offended? I would have thought most level-headed people would be against nazis.

Well you will think that. You will think level headed equates to left wing.

I am against fascism in any guise: against right wing fascism and left wing fascism (those who want to ban the BNP and deny them a voice).

The argument is won according to the merits of argument. Get them on the table and let people decide. If you're aware of the history of this country, then you'll know it's a country that despises extremes, left and right.

What are the anti-Nazi league afraid of? There is no way on earth the far right will be anything more than a fringe party in this country made up of oddballs and social misfits. So what exactly are they doing trying to ban them? Well, deep down you and I know the left needs a cause, and they crave a far right so they can use it as an excuse to parade round the streets like idiots. They're old enough to know better, and as they paint themselves as intellectuals then they need to stop and think about what exactly is motivating them: power.

You've seen Monty Python's sketch, I'm sure, the far right and the anti-Nazi league are essentially the same types: the one difference is they're shouting about different things, although they're still there making a noise about something that is irrelevant in English history and politics. Attention seekers, both the left and the far right.

And, if you have to ban something in order to quell their ideas, then we're knackered anyway, and you musn't have much faith in your fellow countrymen; which of course you don't, the left wants to save us all even though we don't want saving by them!

[Natalie Severn]

Just so we all stay on thread:
The subject matter of this play deals with 'What offends me' ---in this case the treatment of prisoners of war---you can read about it here---http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...a-Mousa-Inquir

There is a brilliant play on right now advertised by our National Theatre yesterday and running at the Tricycle Theatre in Kilburn High Road entitled:
Tactical Questioning
Scenes from the Baha Mousa Inquiry directed byNicolas Kent.

On 14 September2003,Baha Mousa and nine others were arrested by the British Army in a hotel in Basra as suspected insurgents,

48 hours later Baha Mousa was dead,
A post mortem revealed he had suffered asphyxiation,and had received at least 93 injuries to his body whilst in the Army's custody.
In 2008 the Secretary of State for defence announced a Public Inquiry into Baha Mousa's death and the treatement of those detained with him.

Tactical Questioning brings together scenes from the Public Inquiry which examined the shocking events that took place over those two days of detention.and the British Army's policies towards the treatment of prisoners of war.

[Limehouse]

Thanks for you kind words.I didnt mention laws being passed.Remember Michael Howard ,and the abuse he received when he questioned Immigration policies? Perhaps you have forgotten (conveniently) he is but one of a considerable number.The Labour supporter who commented to Brownie regarding immigration during election campaign and was labelled a bigot by the leader of the loony party himself.Laws? your kind dont need laws passed,it interferes somewhat with your agenda.
Why am I amused about the Anti-nazi league? Well there are several reasons,the main reason being that the Anti nazi league are responsible for more violence thabn the groups they protest about.They are merely the Left wing loonies "storm troopers"
Left wing organised violence is no better than Right wing violence.You appear to glorify one ,yet condone the other.Which is somewhat typical maybe.

So - you are against people being labelled 'racists' and 'bogots' but you are happy to label people 'loonies?'

Am I to gather from your response that whilst you dislike the anti-nazi league (because of their supposed violence) you are also opposed to nazis themselves?

I have been on many left wing marches and I have never been involved in any violence. In fact - I have not even witnessed any violence on such marches.

And by the way - Michael Howard is himself the son of an immigrant.

[Natalie Severn]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/jun/07/tactical-questioning-review

re Baha Mousa Inquiry and play "Tactical Questioning"---the link to the Daily Telegraph article on it didn't work---hopefully this one will work.
Best
Norma

[Limehouse]

Well you will think that. You will think level headed equates to left wing.

I am against fascism in any guise: against right wing fascism and left wing fascism (those who want to ban the BNP and deny them a voice).

The argument is won according to the merits of argument. Get them on the table and let people decide. If you're aware of the history of this country, then you'll know it's a country that despises extremes, left and right.

What are the anti-Nazi league afraid of? There is no way on earth the far right will be anything more than a fringe party in this country made up of oddballs and social misfits. So what exactly are they doing trying to ban them? Well, deep down you and I know the left needs a cause, and they crave a far right so they can use it as an excuse to parade round the streets like idiots. They're old enough to know better, and as they paint themselves as intellectuals then they need to stop and think about what exactly is motivating them: power.

You've seen Monty Python's sketch, I'm sure, the far right and the anti-Nazi league are essentially the same types: the one difference is they're shouting about different things, although they're still there making a noise about something that is irrelevant in English history and politics. Attention seekers, both the left and the far right.

And, if you have to ban something in order to quell their ideas, then we're knackered anyway, and you musn't have much faith in your fellow countrymen; which of course you don't, the left wants to save us all even though we don't want saving by them!

What I want Fleetwood - is for children and young people in this country to grow up respecting others and valuing the contribution that all people make to society whatever their colour - their religion - their sexuality etc. I don't impose my view of the world on the young people I meet - I lead by example. I try to be a good role model.

[Limehouse]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011...tioning-review
re Baha Mousa Inquiry and play "Tactical Questioning"---the link to the Daily Telegraph article on it didn't work---hopefully this one will work.
Best
Norma

That's shocking Norma. Such behaviour is not only inhumane but it fuels the hatred that extremists have toward the west and almost legitimises - in their eyes - their terrorist attacks on the west.

[Derrick]

Does this mean you value tolerance while accepting the individual's opportunity to chase his/her own values, tolerant or otherwise?

If so, we're in agreement.

Hi FM

I understand this insofar as intolerance is kept in one's head and not projected vocally and/or physically into somebody else's space.

If someone abused me, in my face, I can guarantee that the next thing that they would remember was laying on the pavement wondering why they had a broken nose. It might persuade them to have a little more respect in future.

But arseholes with no respect (and therefore incapable of any form of tolerance towards others) just pick on those who can't defend themselves.

Are you supporting the granny bashing type when you defend one's right to chase his/her own values, tolerant or otherwise?

Regards
Derrick

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi FM

I understand this insofar as intolerance is kept in one's head and not projected vocally and/or physically into somebody else's space.

If someone abused me, in my face, I can guarantee that the next thing that they would remember was laying on the pavement wondering why they had a broken nose. It might persuade them to have a little more respect in future.

But arseholes with no respect (and therefore incapable of any form of tolerance towards others) just pick on those who can't defend themselves.

Are you supporting the granny bashing type when you defend one's right to chase his/her own values, tolerant or otherwise?

Regards
Derrick

Hi Derrick,

Seems you're equating speech with violence, and of course they are not the same.

Physical violence undertaken by anyone to anyone has to be illegal, as the preservation of property, including the body, is of paramount importance to any civilised society. It is a tangible act.

Opinion and offence, on the other hand, can never be managed through the law, as we'd all be claiming about something, assuming that way inclined. The economic ramifications would be immeasurable and the job of lawyers unmanageable. Once a precedent is established then you'd open up the floodgates for countless claims on the grounds of being offended.

Sticks and stones will break my bones but calling will not hurt me.