What offends you?

[RonIpstone]

In the play ,Medea ,Euripedes deals with the complex emotions that led a mother to murder her children.The act of murder here is considered in the context of the unbearable pain and conflict the woman was enduring.A famous Greek writer therefore took time to consider with compassion what led this queen to slaughter her infants .So condemnation was mediated by deep thought not knee jerk reaction.

So it was a Greek comedy? Strange sense of humour if so.

[Ally]

I've read it. I know the plot. It's about a selfish vindictive cow who can't deal with her man moving on so she slaughters his new wife and her own children in revenge. It's about her vengeance.

If you think she comes off as looking good in it, or even remotely understandable, we have a vastly different view of the play.

[Natalie Severn]

Because it was written in Greece, thereby making it Greek.

In the play ,Medea ,Euripedes deals with the complex emotions that led a mother to murder her children.The act of murder here is considered in the context of the unbearable pain and conflict the woman was enduring.A famous Greek writer therefore took time to consider with compassion what led this queen to slaughter her infants .So condemnation was mediated by deep thought not knee jerk reaction.

[Ally]

I acknowledge that the inquest returned a verdict of suicide and unlawful killing as is reported in the above link. But that was all the coroner could do at the time.

Uh could that possibly be because it was a suicide and an unlawful killing...murder usually is.

Fiona Pilkington had done everything she was asked to do. The harrasment diary she was asked to keep was not found until after her death.

So she writes it...and then doesn't give it to them? Rather than handing it in to the police and standing there and refusing to leave and DEMANDING That they do something? Calling an attorney? Calling the people above the local constables? What good does writing a diary and leaving it to be found after you kill yourself do? How is that doing everything you can do?

She realised that the police were not going to do anything despite repeated requests for help.

And at that point when you realize that sitting on your ass waiting for someone else to come to your rescue isn't going to happen, you take matters into your own hands, and solve your own problems.

But no one should be in any doubt that this vulnerable one parent family (Fiona and her 2 children all had learning difficulties to differing degrees) had been let down by our society to the point of complete and utter despair on Fiona's part.

And if you are going to be a parent it is incumbent upon you to be the first line of your child's defense and if you aren't capable of it, don't have kids. Other people on that block managed to protect their children. One family moved because that was all they could do. Other parents made sure their children were protected. She killed her child.

Anyone who believes that murdering your child is an excusable or understandable response to being an over-burdened single parent is lacking in logic and needs a reality check. There is such a thing as having too much sympathy when you condone murdering a disabled child as a response to being a distraught single parent.

[jason_c]

Hi Ally

Neither mind inital reports...the IPCC published it's final findings into the Pilkington case on the 24th May this year.

It is all here;

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr_240511_pilkington.aspx

and I suggest that you should read it.

I acknowledge that the inquest returned a verdict of suicide and unlawful killing as is reported in the above link. But that was all the coroner could do at the time.

Fiona Pilkington had done everything she was asked to do. The harrasment diary she was asked to keep was not found until after her death. She realised that the police were not going to do anything despite repeated requests for help. A couple of years earlier her son, Anthony, had been subjected to a vicious gang attack at knifepoint and was locked in a shed.

But no one should be in any doubt that this vulnerable one parent family (Fiona and her 2 children all had learning difficulties to differing degrees) had been let down by our society to the point of complete and utter despair on Fiona's part.

If anyone cannot grasp that then they are without both sympathy or empathy towards a fellow human being.

Derrick

The Independent Police Complaints Commission report unsurprisingly deals with the role of the police in the case. The police side of things is only a small part in the whole story.

[Derrick]

In addition, one of the initial reports on the commission finding fault with the police also said that Pilkington had also refused help on certain occasions..mentioned once and never elaborated on in any further news reports. Why is that?

Hi Ally

Neither mind inital reports...the IPCC published it's final findings into the Pilkington case on the 24th May this year.

It is all here;

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr_240511_pilkington.aspx

and I suggest that you should read it.

I acknowledge that the inquest returned a verdict of suicide and unlawful killing as is reported in the above link. But that was all the coroner could do at the time.

Fiona Pilkington had done everything she was asked to do. The harrasment diary she was asked to keep was not found until after her death. She realised that the police were not going to do anything despite repeated requests for help. A couple of years earlier her son, Anthony, had been subjected to a vicious gang attack at knifepoint and was locked in a shed.

But no one should be in any doubt that this vulnerable one parent family (Fiona and her 2 children all had learning difficulties to differing degrees) had been let down by our society to the point of complete and utter despair on Fiona's part.

If anyone cannot grasp that then they are without both sympathy or empathy towards a fellow human being.

Derrick

[Ally]

It was neither speech nor thought that terrorized this family. Speech and thought has nothing to do with breaking windows, smearing dog feces on a door or spitting on someone.

This is not a matter or a case about free speech. This is a case about harassment pure and simple and it is disingenuous to attempt to link the two separate concepts.

There are plenty of people who call disabled or "different" people all manner of names who don't stalk and torment people. The speech is not the issue. The action is.

And it should also be pointed out that this family was not singled out. These little thugs tormented lots of people in their neighborhood. One family chose to move because of it. This woman chose to light her daughter on fire.

[Limehouse]

Vermin indeed! Would you care to rephrase that? To label verminous children as vermin will,Im sure, be deemed offensive by some .These cherubic darlinks,who are only verminous because society has made them that way,should be cuddled a little,patted on the head,and gently shown the errors of their ways.Failing that maybe a foreign holiday for them might be in order,or a subscription to the Socialist Herald.Little Angels-I love em.

The ironic thing about your post is that you are still bashing socialism when in fact you apparently support complete freedom of speech and thought which in effect allows these teenagers to persecute this family.

[glyn]

Vermin indeed! Would you care to rephrase that? To label verminous children as vermin will,Im sure, be deemed offensive by some .These cherubic darlinks,who are only verminous because society has made them that way,should be cuddled a little,patted on the head,and gently shown the errors of their ways.Failing that maybe a foreign holiday for them might be in order,or a subscription to the Socialist Herald.Little Angels-I love em.

[Derrick]

The true irony in the Pilkington case was when the scumbags who were largely responsible (the vermin children from a family called Simmons) were publicly named they got around the clock police protection and sobbed that they were being harassed.

Derrick

[glyn]

Could you elaborate on tha comment? Who is passing the buck?

Maybe Jack the Ripper was bullied too.Maybe the people that bullied him were bullied by others in turn. No man is an island its true,but ultimately the doer of the deed is responsible for their actions.If we lose sight of that,then there really is no point.

[Ally]

It would seem (though I can not say this for a fact, only how it seems to me) that the woman in question was suffering a break down, and by the nature of her actions was no longer capable of thinking clearly.

Here is the problem I have with this. This was apparently not the first time she had contemplated suicide. According to family and friends, she had considered doing this exact thing before only with both of her children in the car. At that point, when she did not go through with it the first time, it was incumbent upon her to go, "you know, this has gotten out of hand. I am contemplating killing my kids over a lot of freaking teenage bastards, how freaking stupid is that" and at that point get her freaking act together. She didn't just snap. She had a long time to think about what she was doing and what she was going to do, and rather than doing anything active to change her circumstances or her situation, she just sat back and let circumstances take her down. There is a huge gulf in my mind between choosing to kill yourself, and choosing to murder someone else. There is a selfishness and a narcissism involved in the latter that makes me entirely incapable of drudging up any sympathy whatsoever. If she had lit one of the teenage bastards on fire, I'd have sympathy for her even. That I could see as justifiable--killing those who torment you or attack you first has some defense. Choosing to kill an innocent, because of your own selfishness, is absolutely indefensible and has no excuse and the person who does it, in my opinion, bears the full and total weight of those actions.

This does indeed remind me of others I have seen who have been completely crushed by bullies, which is by no means related to the physical stature of the bullies. They may have been just teenagers, but each and every day they chipped away at her morale.

And who gave them the power to do that? She did. Bullies have no power over you, save that which you grant them.

[Limehouse]

Maybe the phrase "passing the buck" springs to mind?

Could you elaborate on tha comment? Who is passing the buck?

[Ally]

Because it was written in Greece, thereby making it Greek.

[Natalie Severn]

Why is Medea a Greek tragedy?