SlutWalks

[c.d.]

This post has been deleted for violation of Major Rule #2 Copyright related. Posters are reminded to please limit their use of articles to no more than five lines of quoted text and a link to the original article.

Thank you!

[Rubyretro]

I think that the bottom line is that the 'slutwalkers' are quite right -although personally, I wouldn't like to 'reclaim the word slut'.

I used to hitch-hike an awful lot in the late '80s to early '90s, and there was the same debate about women hitchhikers then, as there is about women wearing provocative clothing, today. The bottom line then, was that if you get into a strange man's car asking for a lift to somewhere, you are not
making yourself available for sex, you just simply want to go somewhere and don't have any transport. Saying that women who hitch hike are 'asking for it' is just an excuse for rapists.

So it is with so called 'slutty' clothing.

I would love to know how we can even judge what is 'provocative' (and so, apparently dangerous ) , or not. What about a woman with an incredibly
curvaceous '50s style figure, who goes out in a tight polo neck jumper,
a tight knee length black pencil skirt, opaque black stockings and plain black
heels ? Arguably, she is far more overtly sexy than a woman with a pudding-y
figure in a mini-skirt and skimpy top. What about women with faces like
Scarlet Johansson, Angelina Jolie or Kate Moss -dressed in floor length sacks ?

I don't see how any judge, policeman, or anyone else would ever be able to
decide what was 'dangerously provocative' or not. The fact is rape/sexual harassement towards any other person is wrong. Full stop.

[TomTomKent]

Claiming people wanted, or deserved, unwanted sexual attention because of their clothes has always seemed small minded to me. There are usually better indicators, like for example: Consent.

[Sally]

Sorry but..

claiming that men rape because the woman (or man, I suppose) was 'asking for it' by wearing 'slutty' clothes is not only an argument based on wholly subjective criteria; but is also tantamount to suggesting that men are incapable, not only of self-control when faced with a person they fancy; but of rational thought.

It's an old excuse based on the premise that men have the right to control women - because that's all that rape is; a means to control.

It makes me cross, I'm afraid

[mariab]

Some women and men who protest dress in nothing more remarkable than jeans and T-shirts, while others wear provocative or revealing outfits to bring attention to "slut-shaming,"
SlutWalkers have danced to hip-hop, worn T-shirts with the word "slut" and held signs that read "sluts pay taxes." Some women have skated around on inline skates in lingerie, while their male supporters wore shirts reading, "I love sluts.".

Hey, I wouldn't even need to change clothes to participate in that. Sluts rule!

[c.d.]

I personally have no problem with women wearing revealing outfits. But that's just me. I have always been open minded about these things.

c.d.

[mariab]

Open minded and open eyed, C.D.

[DirectorDave]

Seems a slight over-reaction to one Policeman's insensitive comments.

I see no problem in victims of crime being advised on how they could have taken preventative steps to avoid being victims the crime....and I don't see why doing this is seen as shifting blame from the perpetrator to the victim.

Does going out dressed provocatively make someone more likely to be a victim of crime?

Is a parent who refuses to let their teenager go out because they are dressed inappropriately being controlive or protective?

Rights and Responsibility is a fine line.....just because someone has the right to do something does not automatically mean they should exercise that right....and that same dichotomy extends to freedom of speech.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=DirectorDave;178720]Seems a slight over-reaction to one Policeman's insensitive comments.

I see no problem in victims of crime being advised on how they could have taken preventative steps to avoid being victims the crime....and I don't see why doing this is seen as shifting blame from the perpetrator to the victim.

Does going out dressed provocatively make someone more likely to be a victim of crime?

The answer to that is no. Are you smoking crack? Do you actually think that women who wear short skirts are more "likely" to be victims of violent crime? Where do you actually get your statistics? Women are mugged and raped while jogging. I suppose they should wear long sweat pants and sweatshirts while jogging because running shorts and tshirts are too scanty and that makes them more likely to be raped. So of course, they should have taken those preventative steps to avoid it. Maybe they should just stay in the house, entirely, that's a preventive step that would prevent it..oh except of course men break in and rape them there.

What precise preventative steps can one take to avoid being raped in regards to wardrobe? I mean besides wearing full body armor at all times?

People are morons. It absolutely infuriates me that men think nothing of going out bare chested, wearing shorts with their ass cracks showing, but unless women are dressed like Mother Teresa or total frumps they are "asking for it" and not doing what they should do to prevent being raped. What a bunch of hypocritical sexist twaddle.

[babybird67]

absolutely

sexual hypocrisy is so rampant its unbelievable.

I love being a sexual woman. I celebrate my body and if I want to dress to accentuate my body and sensuality that doesn't give any man the right to touch me.

Personally I think the word slut should be reclaimed by women and slutwalks are a great idea to raise awareness of the dysfunctional nature of sexual attitudes towards women.

[DirectorDave]

[QUOTE=Ally;178726][QUOTE=DirectorDave;178720]Seems a slight over-reaction to one Policeman's insensitive comments.


[quote]The answer to that is no. Are you smoking crack? I ask the question because in my experience the answer is yes. I have never smoked crack.
What precise preventative steps can one take to avoid being raped in regards to wardrobe? I mean besides wearing full body armor at all times?

Do you actually think that women who wear short skirts are more "likely" to be victims of violent crime? Where do you actually get your statistics? Women are mugged and raped while jogging. I suppose they should wear long sweat pants and sweatshirts while jogging because running shorts and tshirts are too scanty and that makes them more likely to be raped. So of course, they should have taken those preventative steps to avoid it. Maybe they should just stay in the house, entirely, that's a preventive step that would prevent it..oh except of course men break in and rape them there.

Well I wasn't talking about women, I was talking about people in general, but in my experience people who dress provocatively get more "hassle" when out than people who "dress down". I did not provide any statistics so I'm not sure why you are asking me to quote them?

As my point was about people and not any specific gender I would advise anyone to dress appropriately for any activity they undergo. I think there are steps anyone can take to lessen the risk of violent crime, but no step can eliminate that risk and just because some steps may not be taken by individuals I do not think it detracts from the fact that the perpetrator of any violent act is in the wrong.

I myself have taken your option of staying in the house because I did not wish to go out and the risk of getting involved in an incident was part of my decision making process.....but most of the time when I choose to go out drinking I accept there is more of a chance of trouble than staying in and having a drink. But I don't let this stop me going out.

People are morons.

I would not choose to cast that aspersion on all the Human Race but some people are morons....but most people are not.

It absolutely infuriates me that men think nothing of going out bare chested, wearing shorts with their ass cracks showing, but unless women are dressed like Mother Teresa or total frumps they are "asking for it" and not doing what they should do to prevent being raped.

I can assure you that "men" as a group are quite different and we do not all think the same, but that is indicative of the whole human race. You seem to have taken my post that the only person I criticise is the policeman and elaborated it in a rather fancifall way.

What a bunch of hypocritical sexist twaddle.

If you think my post is twaddle then fair enough you are entitled to your opinion, but certainly there is nothing in my post that was sexist.....you made that all up by yourself.

[Ally]

Well I wasn't talking about women, I was talking about people in general, but in my experience people who dress provocatively get more "hassle" when out than people who "dress down". I did not provide any statistics so I'm not sure why you are asking me to quote them?

Oh you were talking about people in general. Well then, please elaborate. Describe for me the wardrobe of a male slut whose provocative dress might lead him to be raped? Imagine a club scene, and a man out there dressed provocatively to attract a woman and tell me about the wardrobe of a man who is dressed like a "slut"? Since we are talking about "people" and not a gender. What's the male slut wardrobe that will make him responsible for being raped.

As my point was about people and not any specific gender I would advise anyone to dress appropriately for any activity they undergo. I think there are steps anyone can take to lessen the risk of violent crime, but no step can eliminate that risk and just because some steps may not be taken by individuals I do not think it detracts from the fact that the perpetrator of any violent act is in the wrong.

Who said anything about not dressing appropriately for an occasion? A skimpy bikini is appropriate at the beach. If two women are raped at the beach and one is wearing a 1 piece and the other is wearing a bikini, both are dressed appropriately but is the woman wearing the bikini more to blame for dressing "provocatively"?

If you think my post is twaddle then fair enough you are entitled to your opinion, but certainly there is nothing in my post that was sexist.....you made that all up by yourself.

There was plenty that was sexist. Pretty much the entire mindset that wardrobe equals responsibility for rape is sexist.

[RonIpstone]

Calm down

Calm down dear.

It seems to me that there are two possible scenarios, to wit

(1) A rapist is more likely to rape a skimpily clad female

or

(2) A rapist is not more likely to rape a skimpily clad female.


If scenario (1) is true, then a bobby should take steps to publicise that fact.

If scenario (2) is true then females should be rejoicing that the male rapist is not 'turned on' by 'provocative' clothing and they can wear what they want, when and where they want to. It also follows that the bobby made an error of judgement. But why all the fuss?

[DirectorDave]

Oh you were talking about people in general. Well then, please elaborate. Describe for me the wardrobe of a male slut whose provocative dress might lead him to be raped? Imagine a club scene, and a man out there dressed provocatively to attract a woman and tell me about the wardrobe of a man who is dressed like a "slut"? Since we are talking about "people" and not a gender. What's the male slut wardrobe that will make him responsible for being raped.

I was also not talking about rape....anothering thing you have made up all by yourself....if you actually take a deep breath and read my posts without prejudice you would realise that.

I do not wish to elaborate, sorry. I was mealy drawing on my own experience of being involved in a violent incident because of something I chose to wear.

Who said anything about not dressing appropriately for an occasion? A skimpy bikini is appropriate at the beach. If two women are raped at the beach and one is wearing a 1 piece and the other is wearing a bikini, both are dressed appropriately but is the woman wearing the bikini more to blame for dressing "provocatively"?

I already stated that any violent crime is the responsibility of the perpetrator, but it seems that statement does not fit the opinion of me that you seem to have decided upon so I feel the need to highlight what I actually said....not what you wanted me to say.

So in your little scenario at the beach the rapist is to blame. Wearing a bikini is entirely appropriate for the beach so I doubt their wardrobe should be reviewed.

""provocatively" and by that I mean drawing attention to yourself......wearing a bikini on they beach is not what I would consider "acting provocatively" infarct I would say the exact opposite. Wearing a tuxedo, tails and top hat on a beach might be a call for attention....but not a bikini.

There was plenty that was sexist. Pretty much the entire mindset that is sexist.

I really think you must be getting me mixed up with someone else if you could point out where I ever said "wardrobe equals responsibility for rape" I will retract it because I don't agree with it.....but if you had chose to read what I wrote rather than thinking I have some "hidden agenda".

As I said my post was related to my own experience of being involved in a violent incident over something I wore.....not about about bikini's, short skirts or anything else.

[Ally]

I was also not talking about rape....anothering thing you have made up all by yourself....if you actually take a deep breath and read my posts without prejudice you would realise that.

Aww isn't it cute. Both the sexist men are attempting to make me out to be some hysterical shrieking female because they are incapable of having a rational debate. How..typical.

Ah you weren't talking about rape. I see. Despite the fact that this topic is about rape and you said this: ""Does going out dressed provocatively make someone more likely to be a victim of crime? ""

Interesting. What crime precisely then were you talking about on thread regarding wardrobe and rape? Carjacking? There is even less of correlation between carjacking, burglary and hit and runs and wardrobe than there is about rape. So what crime precisely besides rape even warrants an attempt at correlation with wardrobe?

""provocatively" and by that I mean drawing attention to yourself......wearing a bikini on they beach is not what I would consider "acting provocatively" infarct I would say the exact opposite. Wearing a tuxedo, tails and top hat on a beach might be a call for attention....but not a bikini.

Ah..so it's the calling attention to yourself, not the specific article of clothing, that makes you responsible for not preventing your own rape. So if a woman wears a top hat and tails to the beach thereby calling attention to herself, *then* is she responsible for her own rape because she failed to take precautions against it?

I mean my goodness, women should not call attention to themselves. They should sit quietly and demurely and keep their eyes downcast so as not to let anyone be aware of their presence in the world.

Because being provocative is just asking for it.

I really think you must be getting me mixed up with someone else if you could point out where I ever said "wardrobe equals responsibility for rape" I will retract it because I don't agree with it.....but if you had chose to read what I wrote rather than thinking I have some "hidden agenda".

You said, on a thread that is entirely about wardrobe and rape: "I see no problem in victims of crime being advised on how they could have taken preventative steps to avoid being victims the crime...."

So do tell me PRECISELY then how someone can dress to avoid being raped?