No limits to immigration

[Robert]

Oh blimey! I don't think I'll be Chinese after all. I think I'll be a Gree.....nope, make that Chinese.

[Errata]

Errata, if it's China I will probably run over my dinner with a tank.

You might have to. My Chinese friends always lament the loss of certain delicacies that weren't quite as dead as we Westerners prefer.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

Although they can't be deported - it does not stop them fom being imprisoned in this country if they break the law. Therefore - undesirable they may be - but if dangerous they WILL be locked up.

True but that doesn't help the victim lying in a puddle of blood or the woman who has just been raped for the police officer to say "Don't worry we will try and lock him up now"

Both of these criminals had a large history of dangerous, nasty, violent crimes, and each time they were released from prison they carried on as before. It is a scam. If you have a deportation order served against you which could take several years, they then commit a crime. Why? Because they know that on their release from prison the clock is reset and the deportation process starts all over again. A few more years pass and again a deportation order is served so once again they commit another crime and so on. These people have a very great incentive to keep committing crimes and absolutely none to remain crime free.

The question is not 'if' there will be more victims but 'who'. Don't forget that other chap I highlighted on here carried out a series of vicious attacks finally culminating in murder.

These people are dangerous, that is without question, but not only are they free to walk our streets but we've also given them £20,000, courtesy of the taxpayer.

What I would wish is that the people on this site who argue against deportation of criminals would just visit the victims families and explain why the safety of the criminal was considered more important than the safety of the victim.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

Are we to assume that if they were deported the misery of victims would not matter in another country?

The sanctions to prevent deportation are fairly strict. Robbery, burglary and drug dealing are bad. But bad enough to knowingly send the criminals into the hands of torturers? Maybe not. A precedent is not a garuntee that any majority of cases will succeed.

Usual rubbish from LTT. The thug that murdered WPC Sharon Beshenivsky was given asylum in this country because he said he would be tortured if he went home to Somalia. So instead of deporting him when he started committing crimes we let him stay so he could gun down two police officers. He fled the country.

Where did we find him? Hiding back in Somalia - strange that the country that was so dangerous for him was the first place he ran to for shelter.

And in answer to your first question, no the victims in other countries do not matter to me if they are being preyed on by their own kind. What you are saying is "So people in other countries don't get harmed by their own criminals send them all over to Britain where they can harm us"

Why don't you contact the family of Sharon Beshenivsky and tell them why you think it was perfectly OK for her to get murdered, because at least he wasn't murdering people in his own country!

[TomTomKent]

Once again Bob has to pretend I said something completely different to argue against. I did not say that it was a good thing for foreign criminals to commit crimes in the UK. I simply pointed out that the crimes are as terrible if committed abroad as they are here. Deportation moves a problem, it does not remove it. Somebody being shot here or somalia is still a dead body.

One person abusing a system for their own benefit is not a good reason to overrule thehumanrights act. The cost of removing the act is handing overhundreds to the rape, torture,abuse, and death threats. But apparently those are just "silly".

[TomTomKent]

Hang about, they commit crimes to scam and stay in this country. And we know it was a scam as one was hiding in Somalia?

Some what defies the idea that the motivation is to go to prison to begin with???

[Errata]

True but that doesn't help the victim lying in a puddle of blood or the woman who has just been raped for the police officer to say "Don't worry we will try and lock him up now"

Well, to be perfectly truthful, it does help a bit. Not as much as it not happening at all, but speaking from experience I can say that knowing it could have been someone else and not you doesn't particularly help either.

But I think one of the issues here is a broader social responsibility. Clearly the immigration system isn't perfect. Clearly criminals can deceive the Government long enough to get in. Or sneak in. But clearly they can also be born and bred in our countries. They can come from good British families, or American royalty.

I think the answer is obvious when we ask "Where the hell was our government?" or "Where were the cops?". They aren't psychic. They aren't perfect. My question is invariably "Why didn't the people who knew this was a problem do something? Why didn't they care?" And I'm guilty of it. I was friends with a drug dealer for awhile. I knew that someone could die because of him. I said nothing.

I watched a documentary on human trafficking, and they talked to the neighbors and friends of people who bought these girls, and they knew something terrible was going on. They ignored it. Jared Loughner's friends knew he was dangerous, and violent. They did nothing. There was a case here in town where a very unstable guy's friends found out about his obsession with a girl, and they egged him on and encouraged him, and he took their advice and abducted and raped her. They said it was just a joke.

And when I was 17, my oldest friend bought a gun. And despite the fact he had never shown any interest in guns or self defense before, no one questioned it. Until he blew his brains out two weeks later.

I know why the government can't always protect us from evil-doers, whether they emigrate from another country, or were born here. Personally, I have never particularly seen it as their job, although I expect them to try. We can protect each other, but we don't. And I think in the end, changing that is vastly more important that changing immigration policy.

[cappuccina]

Hey Bob....the "Yorkshire Ripper" was: a) a longtime/"native" British citizen; or b) a "scary foreigner"...

Do you people realize how xenophobic and insane you sound....seriously....In the US, you would all be embraced by StormFront...

[Sister Hyde]

.
Do you people realize how xenophobic and insane you sound....seriously....In the US, you would all be embraced by StormFront...

ahahah here even the national front wouldn't want that.

[Robert]

The Yorkshire Ripper is English. Want him? We'll send him to you if you like - that's if you're not too xenophobic to have him.

[Limehouse]

True but that doesn't help the victim lying in a puddle of blood or the woman who has just been raped for the police officer to say "Don't worry we will try and lock him up now"

Both of these criminals had a large history of dangerous, nasty, violent crimes, and each time they were released from prison they carried on as before. It is a scam. If you have a deportation order served against you which could take several years, they then commit a crime. Why? Because they know that on their release from prison the clock is reset and the deportation process starts all over again. A few more years pass and again a deportation order is served so once again they commit another crime and so on. These people have a very great incentive to keep committing crimes and absolutely none to remain crime free.

The question is not 'if' there will be more victims but 'who'. Don't forget that other chap I highlighted on here carried out a series of vicious attacks finally culminating in murder.

These people are dangerous, that is without question, but not only are they free to walk our streets but we've also given them £20,000, courtesy of the taxpayer.

What I would wish is that the people on this site who argue against deportation of criminals would just visit the victims families and explain why the safety of the criminal was considered more important than the safety of the victim.

When it comes to victims lying in pools of blood the origin of the perpetrator hardly matters. A victim is a victim. Look at it this way - the majority of violent crimes committed by immigrants results in the criminal serving a sentence then being deported. Our own home-grown criminals are let out on to OUR streets again. We can't deport THEM.

A couple of years ago - I taught a young man who was arrested for murder. He was part of a gang involved in beating to death another immigrant on our river bank. As it happens - after a whole year in jail on remand - he was found not guilty. However - he was deported following his trial because he already had a few convictions and he was associating with known criminals. When his fellow guilty associates are relased - in many years time - they will be deported too. However - another local non-immigrant young man found guilty of manslaughter will be out on the streets in five years - possibly living a few streets away from his victim's family.

[Robert]

So he already had "a few convictions"? Any idea just how many convictions he was allowed to rack up before he was deported? Just curious.

[Limehouse]

So he already had "a few convictions"? Any idea just how many convictions he was allowed to rack up before he was deported? Just curious.

Drunk and disorderly and brawling. He was only 18.

[Robert]

Thanks. I take it that's two. I wouldn't normally describe two as "a few," but we'll leave that to one side. Any chance of your telling us when he came over?

Of course, we don't know that his associates will be deported, do we? That would presumably depend on the conditions then obtaining in whichever country they came from.

[cappuccina]

There are a lot of other British people I would love to have here; the YR is not one of them. I am not xenophobic, obviously. You are the one making all of the bigoted comments not me. The only possible offending word I used and I used it once was "Brit"....so, I'll call myself a "Yank" and we're even.

This shocked me, actually:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Limehouse, in your opinion do you think this is connected to the overconsumption and ease in obtaining alcohol, and the lack of arrests in Britain for things like drunk driving that are considered to be far more serious offenses in the US?

When I last went to London in 1989, I felt so safe there compared to any large American city, and I was in a lot of "non-tourist areas", including most of the East End.