I tend to think that the truth is, "race" is a more or less useless word. One could perhaps divide mankind into the three groups of Caucasian, Negro and Mongoloid, but that's about it.
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Originally posted by HelenaWojtczak View PostSorry Baby that's not the case. An example - all the children of the eastern European Jews that were born in the UK in the late 1800s were still of the Jewish race even though they were born in the East End.
HelenaThere Will Be Trouble! http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Little-Tro...s=T.+E.+Hodden
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Originally posted by Robert View PostI tend to think that the truth is, "race" is a more or less useless word. One could perhaps divide mankind into the three groups of Caucasian, Negro and Mongoloid, but that's about it.There Will Be Trouble! http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Little-Tro...s=T.+E.+Hodden
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Originally posted by HelenaWojtczak View PostSorry Baby that's not the case. An example - all the children of the eastern European Jews that were born in the UK in the late 1800s were still of the Jewish race even though they were born in the East End.
Helena
You can get German Jews, Hungarian Jews etc etc.babybird
There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.
George Sand
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Originally posted by glyn View PostClassic tactics..usual method..the maxim is "when youve lost the argument and have bugger all else to say-criticise punctuation,capitilisation,spelling etc ".....can you not think of anything original?
Nice to see you back. Or are you his Welsh twin?allisvanityandvexationofspirit
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Originally posted by babybird67 View PostAdmin recently posted a note to ask contributors to read the Major Rules and consequences. Stated within them is this:
You might find yourself on the wrong side of the rules again there.
I presume "Sikh/race or religion" is now off topic?
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Originally posted by glyn View PostIts ok I can rely on you to push the button..we dont need admin with you on board.
I presume "Sikh/race or religion" is now off topic?
What was off topic was your post containing only insult. As stated in the rules which you remain for some reason oblivious to.
Robert and I are able to discuss the issue, which we have done, with mutual respect and consideration. I am sure he can manage to respond to me without your simpering advice.babybird
There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.
George Sand
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I have Cornish blood in my tree (great-grandparent). So does that mean that I am one eighth Cornish? Maybe. But perhaps if I followed it back far enough, I might find a bit of Spanish blood in there (Armada). And what is the Spanish blood? Well if I followed that back I might find a bit of Moor, and so on.
The key concept is nationhood : does person A identify with group B? And does group B identify with person A? The identification must be mutual.
If Scotland wanted to declare independence, then the rest of the UK would be quite wrong to try to prevent the Scots from forming their own nation, even if the English, Welsh and Northern Irish were desperate for the Scots to remain. Equally, if the Scots wanted to stay in the UK, but for some reason the rest of the UK didn't want them, then there should be a parting of the ways.
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race vs religion
i was reading an interesting point somewhere about whether race was a matter of biology or social construct...obviously that would come into play when defining those with certain beliefs as a race.
I personally think race is a matter of biological determinant. I am British because I was born here, not because somebody decides I am British because I believe in drinking tea.
I think classifying those with certain beliefs as a race is a way of making them outsiders, rather than including them as part of the indiginous population.
Looking at the Holocaust, there were Germans who were gassed by fellow Germans - the otherness came in because they were Jews. Seeing those who follow certain beliefs as a 'race' apart rather than acknowledging they are just one of us with separate beliefs, is a form of racism and is then imbibed by those being told they are different/of a different race etc...and it becomes a vicious circle then. They adopt a different 'racial' identity because of years of being told they are of another race.
Race isn't a social or religious construct. One can always change one's social status or religious beliefs. One cannot change one's race.
To me though it's simple. We're all members of the human race. We all 'own' the world because we were all born into the world exactly the same as eachother and will leave it with nothing like everybody else.
The rest is really semantics.babybird
There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.
George Sand
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Originally posted by Robert View PostI have Cornish blood in my tree (great-grandparent). So does that mean that I am one eighth Cornish? Maybe. But perhaps if I followed it back far enough, I might find a bit of Spanish blood in there (Armada). And what is the Spanish blood? Well if I followed that back I might find a bit of Moor, and so on.
The key concept is nationhood : does person A identify with group B? And does group B identify with person A? The identification must be mutual.
If Scotland wanted to declare independence, then the rest of the UK would be quite wrong to try to prevent the Scots from forming their own nation, even if the English, Welsh and Northern Irish were desperate for the Scots to remain. Equally, if the Scots wanted to stay in the UK, but for some reason the rest of the UK didn't want them, then there should be a parting of the ways.
Reminds me of that scene in "Blazing Saddles"!!! "Alright, alright... we'll take the n*gg*rs and the chinks... but we don't want the Irish"!!!
Best wishes,
Zodiac.And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
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Babybird, I believe that you are British because you identify with the rest of the British and they with you. You wouldn't need to have been born here. You could have been born on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic.
If on the other hand you were born here of French parents who happened to be working here, but you were then taken to France aged 6 months and brought up in France, where you learned to think of yourself as French, and were accepted as French by those around you, then...you would be French!
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Apparently there's some new DNA data that shows that 90% of English people originally came from Northern Germany .Last edited by Stephen Thomas; 06-28-2011, 12:13 AM.allisvanityandvexationofspirit
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Originally posted by Robert View PostBabybird, I believe that you are British because you identify with the rest of the British and they with you. You wouldn't need to have been born here. You could have been born on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic.
If on the other hand you were born here of French parents who happened to be working here, but you were then taken to France aged 6 months and brought up in France, where you learned to think of yourself as French, and were accepted as French by those around you, then...you would be French!
i understand what you're saying but I don't agree. I'm British because I was born here. I think also we can easily confuse nationality with race. I might grow up in France and have French nationality, but I'd still be a British person based on where i was born...I'd still be a white caucasian, i guess, in racial terms.
Nationality can be fluid, like beliefs and social status. I don't think race is ever fluid. A person of African origin can come here and become British (nationality) but he won't change his race - it doesn't take his being an African away.babybird
There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.
George Sand
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Originally posted by Stephen Thomas View PostApparently there's some new DNA data that shows that 90% of English people originally came from Northern Germany .babybird
There is only one happiness in life—to love and be loved.
George Sand
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