No limits to immigration

[Limehouse]

Good points Tom.

Bob - I wrote:

Immigration is good for a country. It creates a diverse and rich culture and produces often outstanding examples of literature and art - not to mention entrepreneurship that has a positive impact on the host country.

But you reply by talking about MASS immigration and imperialist expansion.

Nobody in the regions you mentioned has been forced off their land by immigrants.

And 'my experience with schoolchildren' is not 'one thing' as you put it. It is the absolute truth as I live and breath it every working day. The poor attainment levels in education by an alarming number of white working class boys are not caused by immigrants but more often by over-indulgent and lazy parents who cannot be bothered to ensure their children get to school on time (if at all) and behave themselves when they are there.

[Robert]

I don't remember anyone talking about over-indulgent and lazy black parents of black boys, when the black boys were doing badly. That kind of language would have been deemed racist.Now that the liberal establishment have rigged things so that the white boys do badly, suddenly it's Ok to say this kind of thing. Well, well.

[glyn]

I don't remember anyone talking about over-indulgent and lazy black parents of black boys, when the black boys were doing badly. That kind of language would have been deemed racist.Now that the liberal establishment have rigged things so that the white boys do badly, suddenly it's Ok to say this kind of thing. Well, well.

Sanity at last Robert,an excellent post ,made eloquently and succintly,and without using two words when one will do.But save your breath,while sensible people know what you say is true,the "committee" here will never be able to see it.
Its about time the majority was asked whether or not they indeed wanted this mass influx of immigrants,and not be merely TOLD that they do,by left wing "ne er do wells",and white apologists.

[Limehouse]

I don't remember anyone talking about over-indulgent and lazy black parents of black boys, when the black boys were doing badly. That kind of language would have been deemed racist.Now that the liberal establishment have rigged things so that the white boys do badly, suddenly it's Ok to say this kind of thing. Well, well.

Well Robert - with respect - you haven't been reading the right sources of information because ten years ago the education establishment was saying precisely that about black boys. However - the educational attainment of black boys now out performs that of white working class boys.

[Robert]

Limehouse, I want to know whether ten years ago YOU were saying that about black parents.

[Limehouse]

Limehouse, I want to know whether ten years ago YOU were saying that about black parents.

Ten years ago I would have been (and was) investigating the curriculum offered to black children that did not see their culture and interests being reflected in any shape or form. Black parents - in general - support their children educationally and expect them to do well. However - concern was being shown towards the low educational attainment of a significant proportion of black boys. That attainment has improved - partly due to changes in the curriculum.

[glyn]

Limehouse, I want to know whether ten years ago YOU were saying that about black parents.

With respect Robert,you allready know the answer to that question.
What fascinates me is that though we hear opinions like"Immigration is enriching" and likewise,
in the media,....and from Politicians,....and from people who are always looking over their shoulder to see who is listening before they speak.Never have I heard those same sentiments expressed by everyday folk in ordinary life.Usually the sentiments expressed are the complete opposite!
In a democracy,in a matter as serious as this,the citizens should have a say.They dont.They should be asked if they wish to retain a semblance of National Identity,not told that they dont.There is such a thing as Immigration,there is also such a thing as Mass I mmigration,the latter is what this country has experienced in recent years.Its only fairly recently that one has been allowed to voice such opinions without instantly being deemed by the zealots as racist,which of course has been nothing other than a ploy to curb dissenting opinion. The whole issue has been nothing less than a charade,a tactic ,to try to help ensure the re-election of a Labour government by garnering the Immigrant vote.This has been admitted,its not up for question.Its also disgusting.What price Democracy?

[Limehouse]

Sanity at last Robert,an excellent post ,made eloquently and succintly,and without using two words when one will do.But save your breath,while sensible people know what you say is true,the "committee" here will never be able to see it.
Its about time the majority was asked whether or not they indeed wanted this mass influx of immigrants,and not be merely TOLD that they do,by left wing "ne er do wells",and white apologists.

A significant number of the 'mass influx' you speak of come from eastern Europe and that is because we joined the European Union and agreed that there would be a free flow of workers between members states.

And who was the 'left wing ne er do well' who took us into the European Union? Why none other than Conservative Edward Heath.

[Robert]

Thanks Limehouse : the curriculum has been changed to suit black pupils. And golly gosh, the black ones are now outperforming the white ones. Well I never.

Are you a teacher, Limehouse? Do you teach white boys? And if so, do you ever tell their parents that they (the parents) are lazy and over-indulgent?

[glyn]

T he European Union of the Sixties/Seventies was a far cry from what it is nowAnd.Since when were Arabs Eastern Europeans?
While to a certain extent we are hidebound by E.U rules,what you must remember is that the previous government actively encouraged immigration,over and above these rules.Not satisfied with that ,they never failed to tell us what a great deal we got out of it.Seems to me it was a swop deal...very many of the best of british emigrated to get away from it,while we inherited other countries drop outs in return.

[Errata]

Immigration is good for a country. It creates a diverse and rich culture and produces often outstanding examples of literature and art - not to mention entrepreneurship that has a positive impact on the host country.

Well, it's not ALWAYS good. But I think, speaking on an evolutionary level, it is necessary. Plurality is good for humans. If a society's culture is inundated and overthrown by an immigrant population, then so be it. People always have the opportunity to do what many Native Americans did, and choose to preserve their own culture in isolation. And that's not a bad thing either.

I think the difference between Native Americans and and citizens feeling overwhelmed by an exploding immigrant population is that immigrants are not forcing American or British citizens out of their homes, off their land, and across the country in order to capitalize on the wealth left behind. It is worthwhile to note that while some immigrants do not feel the need to integrate into their new society, they aren't leading death marches either.

[TomTomKent]

Thanks Limehouse : the curriculum has been changed to suit black pupils. And golly gosh, the black ones are now outperforming the white ones. Well I never.

Are you a teacher, Limehouse? Do you teach white boys? And if so, do you ever tell their parents that they (the parents) are lazy and over-indulgent?

Not stricty true, the curriculum has been changed to have more diverse subjects with in each field. Taking history as an example a student could concentrate on two or three choices from a long list covered by the exam boards that may include European unification, Germany between the wars, a history of medicine, balkans leading up to the first world war, or many others. For English the choice of studied texts probably includes a Shakespear in most schools, but the secondary text could come from a broader range. Being able to discuss Tenesse Williams is no more or less difficult than discussing Oscar Wilde.

[TomTomKent]

T he European Union of the Sixties/Seventies was a far cry from what it is nowAnd.Since when were Arabs Eastern Europeans?
While to a certain extent we are hidebound by E.U rules,what you must remember is that the previous government actively encouraged immigration,over and above these rules.Not satisfied with that ,they never failed to tell us what a great deal we got out of it.Seems to me it was a swop deal...very many of the best of british emigrated to get away from it,while we inherited other countries drop outs in return.

Those would be the drop outs who, on average, invest more time looking for a job, pay higher rates of tax, and in several industries have qualifications that post-privatisation services were unwilling to pay their staff to achieve. Be very careful when attempting to tar many different groups with a single brush.

[Limehouse]

Thanks Limehouse : the curriculum has been changed to suit black pupils. And golly gosh, the black ones are now outperforming the white ones. Well I never.

Are you a teacher, Limehouse? Do you teach white boys? And if so, do you ever tell their parents that they (the parents) are lazy and over-indulgent?

No Robert - the curriculum was not changed to suit black boys. The curriculum started to be more inclusive - reflecting more than just white culture in - for example - the reading list for the English GCSE. In addition - topics were included in the curriculum that reflected a wider range of interests.

I am a fully qualified teacher but my actual title is college lecturer. That does not really reflect what I do most of the time because lecturing forms a small part of my role. Most of the time I teach 16-19 year olds and yes- some of them are white.

I don't get to meet many of the parents but I did have a telephone conversation with a parent a few months ago who objected to me asking his daughter to leave my class after she made obscene and disgusting remarks and refused to apologise.

The conversation went along these lines:

Parent: "Can you control a class of teenagers or not?"
Me: "Yes - that is why I asked your daughter to apologise for the comments she made but when she refused to do so I asked her to leave and she left."
Parent: "All teenagers are rude. You just have to learn to take it"
Me: "Would you like to hear the filth that came out of your daughter's mouth sir? Would you like me to tell you what she actually said"
Parent: "I don't care how f****** filthy she was. She's my daughter and no one tells her off but me. Right? Got it bitch? No one."

Possibly this attitude is the reason why his daughter - of normal intelligence - writes at the level of a seven year old and his son - a year younger than his 17 year old daughter - has been out of school since the age of 13.

[Limehouse]

Well, it's not ALWAYS good. But I think, speaking on an evolutionary level, it is necessary. Plurality is good for humans. If a society's culture is inundated and overthrown by an immigrant population, then so be it. People always have the opportunity to do what many Native Americans did, and choose to preserve their own culture in isolation. And that's not a bad thing either.

I think the difference between Native Americans and and citizens feeling overwhelmed by an exploding immigrant population is that immigrants are not forcing American or British citizens out of their homes, off their land, and across the country in order to capitalize on the wealth left behind. It is worthwhile to note that while some immigrants do not feel the need to integrate into their new society, they aren't leading death marches either.

As usual Errata - a fantastic post.