No limits to immigration

[TomTomKent]

So on the one hand you claim you have no issue with those who genuinely want to work. Then. You suggest that illegal immigrants committing crimes "did just want to work".

What is that, if not the racist implication that all immigrants should be considered criminals?

[DrHopper]

Sorry TTK
An immigrant is not a race.
To state that all Englishmen are bad lovers, all the French are rude surrender-monkeys, or all immigrants are criminals is not racist, no matter how false, closed-minded, ridiculous, or bigoted the statements. It's just generalizations, sweeping statements, and stupidity - at worst, xenophobia (except for the thing about France, which is true )
To state that all white people are smart, black people are lazy, and Asians are less smart than whites is racist.

A race (black, white, etc) is different from a legal status (immigrant).

Sorry to be specific and picky, but as I say, mis-use of the racist term cheapens the meaning. There is more than enough racism in the world without seeing it where it doesn't exist.

Bob and I would, I'm sure, disagree about a lot of things - and certainly his use of crime as a measure of the ills of immigration (of which there are a few, as well as a few benefits), is one of those things. However, a significant proportion of the UK agrees with what he is stating, like it or not, and I don't think calling him, and by extension, them, racist will achieve anything other than creating hostilities and guaranteeing that the subject of immigration will never be talked about in a calm and rational way.

The last situation we would want to create is that like the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, where any criticism of Israel's domestic or foreign policy, or even the mention of the word Zionism, is immediately deemed to be 'anti-semitic' and forces are mobilised to pillory, accuse and demonise those who dared question the enforced status quo. That is an abomination in a free society, especially in one where the right of freedom of speech is enshrined in the law.

[TomTomKent]

"Immigrants" may not be a race. But Bobs postsseemto imply immigrants are criminal because of their race, as Eastern Europeans. Otherwise why compare the criminal few to thosewho genuinely wish to work? I am sorry,but there are few other ways to take the post and the statements at the end of the post in particular. Nor for xenophobic statements about there being no indigenous citizens left in 40 years.

If Bob has a reason for his comments how illegal criminals are "just wanting to work" beyond the face value, perhaps he should clarify it.

[glyn]

reasons

Britain is allready overpopulated-The NHS is buckling under the strain of coping with its native population,let alone incomers-Housing (affordable) is scarce-We have enough of our own freeloaders without importing them-There are four reasons to limit immigration, off the top of my head.Its not racist or bigoted to say that,though some would hope it was.
Enoch Powell might have had a bad press in certain quarters,but at the time he made" that" speech he had the support of the majority.And of course his concerns (and those of the electorate) have been shown to be valid concerns,not nonsense or right wing "rabble rousing"
As we have seen here,the authors ,and the supporters of the mindset that encourage untramelled immigration,"positive discrimination"(which of course is still discrimination by any other name ) and the rest always leave themselves "wriggle room" to get retrieve their situation when tough questions aree asked of them. We live unfortunately in an age where "no sense seems to make sense " where human rights,so called racism,and Socialist rants about the creators of wealth are concerned . Soviets fought for best part of a century to cast off the yoke of Communism,it seems that some here would be only too happy to inflict that odious system(or some loony and unworkable adaption of it) on the West........

[glyn]

My apologies- part of my post was not relevant to this thread.my mistake

[Bob Hinton]

Really?

What is that, if not the racist implication that all immigrants should be considered criminals?

No - just the one's committing crimes, sorry if that's too difficult a concept for you to understand.

[Bob Hinton]

Certainly.

If Bob has a reason for his comments how illegal criminals are "just wanting to work" beyond the face value, perhaps he should clarify it.

Certainly it's a very straightforward concept, criminals look upon crime as their work.

[Bob Hinton]

"Immigrants" may not be a race. But Bobs postsseemto imply immigrants are criminal because of their race, as Eastern Europeans. tit.

What utter tosh. I don’t know what experience little Tom Tom has of other countries, mine is quite extensive. I lived for a time in the Ukraine – and you don’t get much easter in Europe than that- and with one single exception the people I met there were the kindest, nicest people you could ever hope to meet, and I am proud to still call them friends.

One of our closest friends today is a Polish family, Aggie and Kristoff and better people you could not hope to meet. The chap who builds my computers over the last 10 years is Polish, his English is terrible but you give him a pile of pieces and he can create just about anything. These people are decent hardworking people who have come over here to find a better life, they are doing it by integrating themselves into the community and the community is far the richer for it.

When the Poles starting to arrive in Llanelli a young couple opened a delicatessen and coffee shop (Lolek it’s still there). They started getting a lot of hassle from the local yobs, so I made a point of going in there every day for a coffee and sitting rather obviously near the door.

However that doesn’t alter the fact that there are now gangs of Polish thugs, some as young as ten, who are terrorising Llanelli. My greatest fear is that unless we crack down on those people who just come over here to carry on their lawless ways they will all end up being tarred with the same brush.

If you do not address the very real fears and problems that the people have you open the door to the extremists. Constantly trying to bully people into not expressing these points by calling them racist is exactly what the extremists want.

The greatest recruiting aid to the BNP is the Anti Nazi League.

[TomTomKent]

Oh, so you just didn't understand when it was pointed out to you that this is not a discussion about anybody other than those who wish to use their legitimate right to work? Or are you under the flawed impression that anybody has tried to claim that criminal activities are somehow legitimate work protected by human rights? In which case you are simply wrong.

[Bob Hinton]

Greetings.

On another matter entirely. My wife and I were in Gambia a few years ago. Before we left we stocked up with books, pencils, rubbers and other useful things for a school we were helping. I also scoured the charity shops begging or buying all the spectacles they had to give to hospitals. What your grandmother threw away can give sight to some poor soul.

Getting there is another matter; roads are nonexistent in some areas, even in cities you have to travel by truck. One of the photos shows our Mercedes getting stuck in the mud, the car behind wasn’t so lucky, he fell off the road.

The teacher was a lovely woman whose teaching aids mainly consisted of a roll of paper stuck on the wall. The other two are of the children. They have to pay for schooling and some of them walk 10 miles through the bush to get to school.

[Limehouse]

Thank you for those beautiful pictures Bob - and bless you and your wife for providing things that we take so much for granted but are so valued by these people.

When any of my student groups get rowdy and uncooperative - I tell them how lucky they are to be getting a free education. I have a link on my computer to a website that shows a film of children in Africa doing many household chores before they walk happily and joyfully to school many miles away. It never fails to touch their hearts and is a great motivator.

[glyn]

To the president/prime minister/ of Algeria,
Dear Sir/Madam
As I am making plans to emigrate to your fine country,I thought I would take this opportunity to drop you a line to inform you that I will be arriving in approximately two weeks time,which should allow you ample opportunity to make arrangements for my arrival.
Upon my arrival,I Will,naturally enough ,expect to be given a motor vehicle ,and accomodation at a 5 star hotel,paid for of course by the Algerian Tax payer.Furthermore I will need a weekly allowance of the equivalent of £1000 sterling to be paid into my bank account every monday by 10 p.m sharp.I ALso expect,should I require it,the best medical treatment available,and to jump ahead in any hospital waiting list comprised of mere Algerian natives .I will ,naturally enough require a short sabbatical upon my arrival,lets say a 12 months,before I start work.I must have preferential status ,as an immigrant,in any position I apply for....the same will apply for my wife ,7 children,3 uncles,2 grandfathers,who will be arriving a fortnight after myself.
All places ofAlgerian worship must be torn down and replaced by roman catholic churches.I must be free to criticise each and every native who crosses my path,while any native who says rude or naughty things about Englishmen or England must be summarily executed.Of course it goes without saying that your country must adopt English as the first language Well dear President I think Ive included everything and
Ive no doubt the populace will welcome me the minute I step off the plane.Oh! sorry I did indeed forget something...its of minor importance ,but Ill mention it in passing....Im not a bad person,but Ive been discriminated against so much in my own country that unfortunately I have fell foul of the law on a few occasions.My list of convictions read thus
3 conviction for GBH
1 attempted rape
39 shoplifting convictions
5 convictions for sexually interfering
with a staffordshire bull terrier
1 indecent exposure charge (not proven)
56 convictions for fraud
Im sure these trumped up charges will be no barrier to my entry into your very fine country..
OOH I cant wait.Im getting really excited about it all..a new life-everything paid for......I really cant believe it1

[Limehouse]

To the president/prime minister/ of Algeria,
Dear Sir/Madam
As I am making plans to emigrate to your fine country,I thought I would take this opportunity to drop you a line to inform you that I will be arriving in approximately two weeks time,which should allow you ample opportunity to make arrangements for my arrival.
Upon my arrival,I Will,naturally enough ,expect to be given a motor vehicle ,and accomodation at a 5 star hotel,paid for of course by the Algerian Tax payer.Furthermore I will need a weekly allowance of the equivalent of £1000 sterling to be paid into my bank account every monday by 10 p.m sharp.I ALso expect,should I require it,the best medical treatment available,and to jump ahead in any hospital waiting list comprised of mere Algerian natives .I will ,naturally enough require a short sabbatical upon my arrival,lets say a 12 months,before I start work.I must have preferential status ,as an immigrant,in any position I apply for....the same will apply for my wife ,7 children,3 uncles,2 grandfathers,who will be arriving a fortnight after myself.
All places ofAlgerian worship must be torn down and replaced by roman catholic churches.I must be free to criticise each and every native who crosses my path,while any native who says rude or naughty things about Englishmen or England must be summarily executed.Of course it goes without saying that your country must adopt English as the first language Well dear President I think Ive included everything and
Ive no doubt the populace will welcome me the minute I step off the plane.Oh! sorry I did indeed forget something...its of minor importance ,but Ill mention it in passing....Im not a bad person,but Ive been discriminated against so much in my own country that unfortunately I have fell foul of the law on a few occasions.My list of convictions read thus
3 conviction for GBH
1 attempted rape
39 shoplifting convictions
5 convictions for sexually interfering
with a staffordshire bull terrier
1 indecent exposure charge (not proven)
56 convictions for fraud
Im sure these trumped up charges will be no barrier to my entry into your very fine country..
OOH I cant wait.Im getting really excited about it all..a new life-everything paid for......I really cant believe it1

If there is a point to this I am afraid I've missed it. Could you explain it please?

[glyn]

The thread is "limits to immigration" ............ hence a light hearted observation/comment regarding a serious issue that concerns an awful lot of people......exaggerated for the sake of effect maybe.The situation in Britain is so dire that the only action one can take is to laugh or joke about it in my view.Its not about race,or colour or creed ..its about overpopulation,tottering social services ,tax payers money being handed out hither and thither,silly views about what constitutes racism,bigotry and the like,and the fact that Britain is a soft touch for anyone who plays the ethnic minority/human rights card.......I hope that helps you.

[Bob Hinton]

True

Thank you for those beautiful pictures Bob - and bless you and your wife for providing things that we take so much for granted but are so valued by these people.

.

I heard about these schools and hospitals from a local lady whose husband had driven a landrover all the way to Gambia to raise money for them. At first we gave money but really wanted to see for ourselves.

It makes you think about things. We also went to another hospital run for pregnant women and run by a single nun. We gave them things like soap and toothpaste and silly things like eau de Cologne. The ladies liked the perfume best! We made friends with a local chap ( he owned the Mercedes) and paid him to take us round the various places. He took us to the local markets to buy the stuff - it's better to buy in the country as you are putting a bit of cash into the local economy, also it's much easier to carry cash out as trying to carry bag full of goods.

You really have to think about what life is like out there. One of our group was going to buy boxes of biros and I suggested she take pencils and rubbers.

I explained that after they had done their work in pencil they could rub it out and have a clean sheet of paper to use again.

Spectacles are always needed desperately. I remember handing them over to the nurse and she called one of the older ladies over and tried some on her. She suddenly gave a whoop and started running around the compound.

The nurse explained it was the first time she had seen anything for ten years.

So remember, next time you are in a charity shop try and score some spectacles - I know just where they are needed!

I've got some more piccys of Gambia if you want to see them.