Global Warming

[Tom_Wescott]

Voting in 2008 was yet another 'lesser of two evils' situation, but I really, really, really didn't want to have McCain in office. He's just too institutionalized. I certainly don't agree with Obama on everything, but I'm ALL for healthcare reform and he's a good orator. My biggest concern was how he'd handle himself in foriegn affairs and if he'd make a big deal out of his blackness and start being a president only for the black people. On the other hand, he should certainly start addressing the issues that white leaders are no longer allowed to discuss for fear of being labeled 'racist', such as the ridiculously high crime and poverty rate among black Americans and second generation Spanish immigrants. It's a fine line Obama must walk.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Hi Maria,

Al and Tipper are in the process of getting a divorce. I am assuming that they are separated at this point.

c.d.

[mariab]

Quote Tom Wescott:
Voting in 2008 was yet another 'lesser of two evils' situation.
Very few elections aren't that, but I think 2008 was definitely not that. It was a liberation from great embarrassement. Obviously Al Gore would have been a stronger, less “charged“ candidate for the Democrats, but, like I said, Obama revealed himself a fine president, much more efficient than Clinton or Carter.

In the initial debates for the 2008 campaign I was liking Edwards, and I was preferring Hillary to Obama, who appeared as pretty inexperienced then. But the one thing that really bothers me about Hillary (and exactly the same about Bill) is her/their “shallowness“ (for lack of a better word). It's pretty clear that their having been in the administration for 8 years (and there's NO doubt whatsoever that they were in the presidency “together“) and their undeniable “star quality“ have spoiled them into often been superficially informed about the details. In this the Clintons very much remind me of ex German cancellor Gerhard Schröder.
Obama as a newbie was very clever to have gathered all kinds of capable consultants around him (something I doubt Hillary would have done so efficiently and modestly), he's a good orator, and he's doing the best he can under the circumstances for the health care reform. (Something that Hillary unsuccessfully attempted in 1994? Was it 1996?)
Obama's doing just fine in foreign affairs. His recent approach to the Egypt crisis was very clever. Also, I agree with German cancellor Merkel when she said that “foreign affairs is a piece of cake“ (when one has half a brain and a bit of presence).
It's home affairs which is the real onus. As or the crime issue, Obama can definitely walk the “fine line“, still, the problem is not so much the racial issues as the guns politics, which in the US it's at least as thorny an issue as the health care reform. When residing in the US, I happen to live in Chicago's South Side, where crime and guns is a very real issue. And nope, neither Obama nor the Mayor managed to change things efficiently in Chicago Hyde Park, although they did open some new schools and subsidized different projects in the 'hood. Problem is, we have a pretty severe global recession, so funding is being cut everywhere.

Quote C.D.:
Al and Tipper are in the process of getting a divorce. I am assuming that they are separated at this point.
Lots of people do in their age and situation, C.D..

[The Good Michael]

Bill Clinton was a great president for getting rid of the deficit the Republicans got us into. That was a monumental task. He also was good for foreign policy. I don't know what the beef is about him. Besides, the topic is global warming and it definitely is warmer in Astana the locals tell me. It only hit minus 40 4 or 5 times and has only been below -4 for about 80 straight days.

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

Voting in 2008 was yet another 'lesser of two evils' situation.
Very few elections aren't that, but I think 2008 was definitely not that. It was a liberation from great embarrassement. Obviously Al Gore would have been a stronger, less “charged“ candidate for the Democrats, but, like I said, Obama revealed himself a fine president, much more efficient than Clinton or Carter.

Yes, but that's three years later. He had NOT revealed himself as efficient in 2008. As for Hillary, America is not ready for a female president, nor will it be for a long while. Nor is it a good idea. And certainly Hillary Clinton would NOT be the best choice. Nor Sara Palin.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[ChainzCooper]

Who really cares? The Earth has been around for billions of years do you really think its going to, I don't know, explode or something in the next 100 because of some hot air? And if it does I'm not going to be around anyways so why am I concerned? Thats just stupid thinking. The Earth will get rid of us before we get rid of it, thats just common sense
Jordan

[sdreid]

When the Sun depletes all its hydrogen and begins helium fusion then we'll have some real global warming. We have 4 billion years to prepare for that and our evolutionary descendants will probably be able to adjust Earth's orbit out to the new Goldilocks by then.

[mariab]

To The Good Michael:
Bill Clinton was more or less OK with foreign policy, apart from environmental issues (the Kyoto protocol) and from recklessly bombing that pharmaceutical company in Sudan after the Kenya/Tanzania terrorists bombings of the American embassies in 1998. That action costed Clinton Germany's and France's severe disapprovement, with repercussions on the continental Europe's reactions to the Irak war. (Although, truth be said, France was mainly seeking a pretext to disapprove of American policies in the Middle East.) By the by, Clinton was super close to achieving peace in the Middle East in the Camp David negotiations, only it wasn't meant to be.

You're right about the highjacking of this thread, Michael, but Clinton was environmentally speaking not a good president. Just look at the California redwood debate. (I happen to have met Julia Hill, the activist who spent 2 years living on a redwood tree, and have read up not just her book, but also quite a bit of documentation on the matter.)

Quote Tom Wescott:
Obama had NOT revealed himself as efficient in 2008. As for Hillary, America is not ready for a female president, nor will it be for a long while. Nor is it a good idea. And certainly Hillary Clinton would NOT be the best choice.
We are in agreement about Obama. As for Hillary, the issue is not her being female, but her having essentially achieved “rock star“ quality, which makes me question if she's purely “honest“ (again, for lack of a better word). America is totally ready for a female president, Tom. The problem in the debate is not gender, but a qualified, worthy person. Hillary is a very special case in her quality of former first lady, as she already was co-president in Clinton's side for 8 years. The Clintons can be compared to the Bush “dynasty“.

Quote Chainz Cooper:
Who really cares? The Earth has been around for billions of years do you really think its going to, I don't know, explode or something in the next 100 because of some hot air? And if it does I'm not going to be around anyways so why am I concerned?
Counting on having kids and grandchildren some day, Jordan?
It's an undeniable fact that the glaciers are melting and the ocean surface is augmenting. I was in Greece by the coast this November, and was shocked to see that in the Mediterranean the water has invaded half a Km of land everywhere. The beaches I grew up playing on as a kid have been almost entirely devoured by the sea, and water is about to reach the back porches of houses.
As for a climatic change, it's too early to say if it can be avoided. It depends on what we do in the next 20 years.

[ChainzCooper]

If the late George Carlin was right about one thing its that theres too much emphasis on children these days. And how exactly is the planets life cycle dependent on whether or not I have a kid?
Jordan

[Errata]

I have no idea if global warming is real. I'm not even sure how to technically define it. If the question is "are greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere negatively affecting the climate?" well, yes. They are. But we are also coming out of an ice age, so that could be it. Theres some perihelion thing I don't understand going on. The truth is, it could be a lot of things. Of course, we can't do anything about ice ages or the perihelion of the earth or solar flares etc. Greenhouse gasses we can do something about.

What I don't get is people who say there is no difference between their teen years and now. Theres a big difference between five years ago and now. Clearly they have some awfully climate controlled sand they are sticking their heads into.

[mariab]

I'm not planning on having kids anytime soon (or possibly at all) either, too wrapped up in my riding/my jumps to care about any of this right now (that is, IF we don't get out of snow altogether by the next decade), still, a little concern for the future of humanity and nature is required. Otherwise, why not nuke it all, while we're at it?

And how exactly is the planets life cycle dependent on whether or not I have a kid? Jordan

Obviously it's your kid's quality of life which will be dependent on the planet's physical state.

PS.: Global warming is not there yet, but unless we're not careful, it might become unavoidable.

[ChainzCooper]

Alright this is going to be my last post on this subject. I think in life you have to accept things that happen no matter what. You have to let life flow through you like the surf and not fight it ,just let it carry you along. So I guess what I mean is if something happens it happens. If my life ends, it ends. If the Earth ends, it ends. I had a good ride and I learned a lot. I had some beautiful moments and some bad moments. But i'm not going to worry about when these moments come because I just refuse to think that way.
Jordan

[sdreid]

The perihelion comes around every January just when we need it most.

[mariab]

To ChainzCooper:
I'm pretty chilled myself, but some things in life can be changed, even a little bit, and why not give it a try?
As for flowing like the surf, there are already surf spots disappearing on the Atlantic French Coast, due to the volume of the ocean getting higher. On the other side, there are new surf spots appearing in other places.
I bet we're not gonna live to see it, if anything bad happens it would happen 3 generations (60 years?) later.

[ChainzCooper]

You seem cool Maria I enjoy your posts on here. Keep it up
Jordan