Burka

[Bob Hinton]

Ban it

The wearing of a burka should be banned in Britain as it is contrary to our culture. In days gone by two armoured warriors meeting could guess at the others intentions by the way they wore their armour. If they had the visor lowered it signified they expected to fight. The act of raising the visor signified the opposite and the action later became the salute.

Western people equate an uncovered face with safety and the reverse is true.

There is also the security aspect whereby having someone who cannot under any circumstances be identified is just simply wrong. I understand two suspected bombers left the country wearing the burka.

If Muslims do not agree with respecting our culture then they should leave, after all in their country we are forced to respect theirs. We hear far too much about respecting other peoples culture and absolutely nothing about them respecting ours.

I do not want to see these people wandering down the streets of Britain in exactly the same way I don’t want to see the KKK in full robes doing the same.

[Rubyretro]

I live in France and this thread prompted me to sound out some of my Moslem friends and neighbours (I live in a quarter with a high North African
population), and they and I were agreed that :

-There is nothing in the Koran to make women wear a burka..or even a headscarf

-the vast majority of women wearing burkas (estimated at a mere 2000 here)are forced to do so by their husbands (who grow beards !).

-it is not an act of piety, but rather an act of political provocation directed at the French State, and the West in general (Jihad). It is an act designed to create racial tensions and divisions in the community.

About 80% of French people are in favour of a ban -it unites the rascist
far Right, and the far Left (who see it as giving leverage to a woman to be able to resist her husband by evoking the Law, and bringing financial pressures on the family because she could no longer work or drive if she complied with his demand).

A woman was recently fined for wearing a burka when driving and it provoked riots -I think that was the desired effect ; it is obvious that it is dangerous to drive in a full burka, and it was bound to attract the attention of traffic
police.

Personally speaking, I am for the ban; One law (going back to Napolean)
separated the French State from the Church, and so ouvert religious symbols are banned in schools...we have no Assembly, and you are not allowed to wear Moslem headscarves (although the school canteen would serve a pork
free dinner), Jewish skullcaps, obvious Christian crosses, or any other symbol.
I cherish this law -everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but you don't ram it down other people's throats nor promote segregation if you want to avail your children of an excellent, free, French education.

I would hope that banning the burka would give the same message -sadly though, by fining women who were probably forced to wear it, they would find themselves in the 'firing line' twice...and we can expect more riots..

ps: the passing of this proposed Law has been postponed..

Edit: At it's basic form the Burka is a form of Tribal dress (as are all our clothes). Wearing the Burka is like denoting yourself as not belonging to the French 'Tribe', indeed wishing to create trouble for it,
whilst benfitting from all it's advantages.

[Limehouse]

Phil, I did not mean men could not look at a woman without desire or lust, I meant the opposite. To me, aspect of wearing the Burka IMPLIes (ie suggests) that men cannot look at a woamn's face without desire and I was saying that this is unfair to men.

I beleive that the Burka is only unfair to women if it is forced onto them. If they wear it as a choice, then it is acceptable to me.

[Phil H]

Surely the culture of most western countries is all about the freedom to choose, so a ban preventing women from wearing the burka if they choose to would be just as anti-cultural as a law requiring them to wear one.

Surely the culture of British and "most western cultures" is founded on being able to see the open face of whomever one is talking to? To be able to look into their eyes, to see the honesty (or lack of it) there?

Coverings such as the burkha are an affront to women - would we tolerate forced marriages, human sacrifice, cruelty to animals if practised in the name of an oriental or other religeon? If not then we should not tolerate inequality - when that is being enforced on all other elements of society in terms of pay and rights.

Neither do I like the inference, touched on in another post, that I amd other men cannot look on a oman without impure thoughts, lust etc etc.

I don't particularly condone the French approach, but we need to be careful in regard to the precedent being set (expectations being raised) to the end that we come to have multiple legal systems (sharia law) etc. If you can have that, why not communities that can bring back hanging or practiise sexual harassment or prejudice against woman/gays etc?

I ask questions, I have no answers.

Phil

[belinda]

The husband of any woman who choses to wear a niqab or a burkha should also have to wear one in exactly the same situations as his wife.

That surely is the meaning of an equal and diverse society.

Phil

Well said.

Soapbox Time as a woman I find the Islamic religion particularly insulting.Islamic women are indoctrinated from birth to believe they have to wear these appalling garments.In some countries now it is not a choice it is law.Even foreign women visiting these countries are expected to follow the dress laws.In some of the more extreme countries it is against the law for a woman to show her face in public.

[brummie]

There should be more education about the purpose and function of the Burka and women should wear it from choice. I am not totally in favour of a ban - but on the other hand, if a country decides they are not in keeping with that country's culture and ideology then I think they have the right to ban them - just as women walking the streets of some Muslim countries are required to cover themselves in keeping with the local culture and ideology.

Surely the culture of most western countries is all about the freedom to choose, so a ban preventing women from wearing the burka if they choose to would be just as anti-cultural as a law requiring them to wear one.

It would be interseting to know why some women choose to wear one though since, although I don't claim to be an Islamic expert, muslims I know have said the Quran doesn't require women to be covered from head to foot merely to dress modestly.
If a woman apparently chooses to wear the burka is it entirely a free choice or the result of years of interpretation by male clerics?
Interestingly some major shopping complexes have bans in effect against 'hoodies' does the same apply to covering the face with a burka and would anti race laws allow it .

[Graham]

I wish my missus would wear a burka.

Graham

[Phil H]

The husband of any woman who choses to wear a niqab or a burkha should also have to wear one in exactly the same situations as his wife.

That surely is the meaning of an equal and diverse society.

Phil

[Limehouse]

In many cases, the wearing of the Burka is the woman's choice. It kind of gives them the opportunity to be judged for themselves in their own right and not for what they look like. It's a kind of freedom.

However, in other ways, the motive for wearing it is kind of disrespectful to men because it implies men cannot be trusted to see an attractive woman without desiring her.

There should be more education about the purpose and function of the Burka and women should wear it from choice. I am not totally in favour of a ban - but on the other hand, if a country decides they are not in keeping with that country's culture and ideology then I think they have the right to ban them - just as women walking the streets of some Muslim countries are required to cover themselves in keeping with the local culture and ideology.

[belinda]

Hmm Burkas

I know let's recycle themYou could get at least two Boob Tubes and a Mini Skirt out of every one

It could be the new reality Tv sensation Pimp My Burka

[Robert]

Hi Ruby and Claire

I've seen them covered from head to toe, and at the bottom....they're wearing trainers. Kind of destroys the effect.

I certainly wouldn't ban the wearing of it in ordinary places like the street. It's up to them what they wear. I'm only surprised that there aren't a variety of colours and styles.

[claire]

What do folk think about the great burka bust-up? If I were a Moslem woman, I wouldn't wear one - how can you have a fag with one of those on?

In Qatar I used to see women sitting on the wall along the Corniche, niqab hanging on a piece of elastic round their neck, smoking a Davidoff. I think there are laws against that here.

[Rubyretro]

Robert -I've always smoked 40 a day whilst wearing mine...it did once go up in flames at the 'Dog Races' though...

[Robert]

Caz, you know very well that if they really can't talk in those things, they will communicate by semaphore or with an aldis lamp.

[Rubyretro]

cheaper than botox though...