Burka

[Stephen Thomas]

Thatcher was not brought up in poverty by any means. Remember I am in the Detroit area; owning a couple of stores and the apartments above them would make you literally wealthy here...

You are quite correct, Cappucina. I was born in a reasonably sized town in Yorkshire a long time ago (1945 no less) and my grandfather owned a shop and plumbing business and was regarded as a local worthy and I believe that he was a Freemason and I know he was also also the friend of Rutherford, the man who split the atom . The Brit upper class never involved themselves with the industrial North of England, or Scotland or Wales for that matter. The first time I encountered the 'upper class' of the UK was when I came to London in 1965 aged 19 and I was totally astonished by certain people I met.

Mr Hinton is a lowly magistrate but seems to think he's a High Court Judge.

[Zodiac]

Poor Maggie...

Thatcher was not brought up in poverty by any means. Remember I am in the Detroit area; owning a couple of stores and the apartments above them would make you literally wealthy here...

Hi Capps,

Yes indeed, Thatcher's father not only owned two grocery stores, but he was also, at one time or another, a member of the town council, a Justice of the Peace, a director of the Trustee Savings Bank, President of the Chamber of Trade, a director of the Grantham Building society, President of the local Rotary Club, governor of the local Grammer School, Alderman of the town council and, of course, the Mayor of Grantham!!! So the very fact that the sainted Maggie somehow managed to claw her way out of such a hopeless, lowly, impoverished and underprivileged background should stand as a testament to us all, that anyone, of any social class, even the most petty members of the most provincial petty bourgeoisie can rise to the highest office in the land!!!

Best wishes,

Zodiac.

[cappuccina]

Thank you Stephen and Zodiac for the useful information; this strongly reinforces what I thought earlier.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

What absolute nonsense is being written here. Mr Roberts wasn't born with all those achievements and offices, he had to work hard to get them. So according to you anyone who works hard and progresses themselves are to be labeled as High Society and therefore living a life of privelege?

I suppose you will only be happy with a communist state where everyone regardless of merit is all at the same level.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

Mr Hinton is a lowly magistrate but seems to think he's a High Court Judge.

And how the hell would a clod like you know what I think? People like you make me sick. As soon as someone stands up and says 'OK I'll volunteer for this or that because I think I can do some good for others' all you do is sit back with your can of beer in your hand clothed in your undervest and sneer. I thank God every day that the majority of people I have come across in my life have been decent people, unlike the garbage you obviously are.

My only regret is a lot of those people are now dead, having their lives taken away from them looking after rubbish like you.

And Cappucina if you want to sneer at the Royal Family you go right ahead, but I'll tell you one thing you aint fit to wipe their boots let alone anything else.

[cappuccina]

And Cappucina if you want to sneer at the Royal Family you go right ahead, but I'll tell you one thing you aint fit to wipe their boots let alone anything else.

Ummm....excuse me, "Monsieur Politesse"....My IQ is at least twice that of Charles'., and I am far more educated than he is (which is not too hard, actually LOL)...and who said I was condemning the entire Royal Family....I like some; I don't like some....just like any other family...There is also an inbreeding problem with them, as is typical in some families in the rural Southern areas of the United States, and the remote Northern areas as well... (to be fair)

Apparently, in college, his only real talent was in "pottery making"...

Inbreeding can cause some very serious genetic problems, and can also serve to "dilute" intelligence. That's why there are general societal prohibitions against it. The British royal family had several marriages as close as the first cousin....Yikes!

I will stand by what I said that the Queen Mum was fabulous and by far the best of the lot. Apparently, you know almost nothing about her:

"Daughter of the Scottish Lord Glamis, who became the 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, Elizabeth was educated at home. She was a descendent of the Scottish King, Robert the Bruce. Brought up to duty, she worked to nurse troops in World War I when her home was used as a hospital for the wounded...."

From: http://womenshistory.about.com/od/qu...beth_queen.htm

Really, Charles has been nursing troops wounded in the Middle East and turned his home into a field hospital....I hadn't heard???

The only newsworthy item we've heard in America about Charles, other than the terrible and unfortunate death of Diana, was when the American news media was playing the "secret" telephone conversations between Charles and Camilla's affair where he said something like he "wanted to be her tampon and live in her trousers (paraphrased for decency)"....

Yup, a fine specimen he is....Yup....

Please, Bob, continue with the ad hominem attacks on all of us, since you have nothing else to contribute.

(What?? What's that you said; you don't know what ad hominem means, since you never took Latin ...? I'm so sorry, Bobbo, you'll just have to look it up...)

[claire]

What absolute nonsense is being written here. Mr Roberts wasn't born with all those achievements and offices, he had to work hard to get them. So according to you anyone who works hard and progresses themselves are to be labeled as High Society and therefore living a life of privelege?

I suppose you will only be happy with a communist state where everyone regardless of merit is all at the same level.

Come on, Bob...first off you say that Margaret clawed her way out, then you say it was actually her father...how far back do you go before you concede that a later generation hasn't 'clawed their way out'?

I mean, one can certainly applaud her tenacity as a woman, and young mother, in that era; can't they be achievement enough, rather than trying to claim that she rose from the gutter, with the implication that any one of the most impoverished people in our country could have achieved what she did, given just the slightest determination? In a way, you're diminishing her actual achievements, by reaching for circumstances that were not hers.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

Claire if you want to have a go at me fill your boots, however I would take it as a courtesy if you at least read what I posted instead of accusing me of something I haven’t done. I have never said or intimated that Mrs Thatcher “clawed her way out” or “rose from the gutter” (your words).

I was replying to the ridiculous comment made by Capps in post 254 where she stated that “Thatcher was born into privilege;” I replied in post 295 “You really must stop letting your class hatred take over. Margaret Thatcher was the daughter of a grocer in Grantham and was raised in a small flat. Hardly a privileged start in life is it? She worked for what she achieved.”


This is hardly living the life of the daughter of a robber baron whose vast country estates are only outnumbered by the quantities of servants hiding behind every bush that the phrase “born into privilege” bring to mind.

She refused to correct this nonsensical comment and then went on to cite that her father had a number of minor posts in various organisations. I pointed out that these were obtained by hard work and not through any inherent privilege.


So you can see if you can be bothered to look that the main point of your post that I stated Mrs Thatcher “clawed her way out” and that she “rose from the gutter” were words or ideas never put forward by me.

[Bob Hinton]

More cr*p from Capps

Oh so the great Capps has given me permission to continue making ad hominem attacks has she? All hail the mighty Capps. And here’s another thing you got totally wrong, I did take Latin in my school, but wait it was a Grammar School, the same type Mrs Thatcher went to that must mean I too was born to a life of unremitting privilege.

And this from a piece of rubbish that has been doing nothing but making personal attacks on members of the Royal Family, about whom she knows nothing other than what she picks up in the National Inquirer.

So let’s fork over the latest rubbish from Capps.

My IQ is at least twice that of Charles'

Really? Someone with a 200 plus IQ should be worldwide news.

and I am far more educated than he is (which is not too hard, actually LOL).

Well it would be pretty difficult actually as a quick glance at his educational record will show. But as for his ability which you sneeringly sum up as only having a talent for pottery making (I’m sure his degrees are not in ceramics) he qualified as a pilot in the following aircraft, Wessex helicopter, Chipmunk, Harrier, Jet Provost, Nimrod, F4 Phantom, Vulcan Heavy Bomber and even a Spitfire.

Gosh what a lunkhead, of course Capps can do all these things after all she has an IQ twice that of Prince Charles. He has also commanded a Royal Naval warship. He also qualified as an Officer in the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy. By the way the helicopter squadron he flew for was 845 Naval Air Commando Squadron, sister squadron to my old squadron 846 and I can assure you only the best of the best get to fly for those two.

Next stupid comment. You mention everyone’s favourite the Queen Mother and say she was the “best of the lot” and the reason you give for this was that she nursed wounded soldiers in WWI. You then go on to say:

“Really, Charles has been nursing troops wounded in the Middle East and turned his home into a field hospital....I hadn't heard???

Uh surprising statement for someone with such a massive IQ. There wasn’t actually a war on when Prince Charles was in the forces. Here in Britain in we tend to frown on our governments starting wars just to offer certain people photo opportunities.

Now the Queen Mothers nursing was undoubtedly a grand thing to do, but she was hardly in harm’s way was she? Our present Queen and her sister both war uniform during the war in front line London when they both could have moved to safer climes. One of her cousins (I believe was killed during the war while on active service) Prince Philip had a distinguished wartime service serving in all theatres.

Now when Prince Charles brother, Prince Andrew, was in the Navy we did have a war and off he toddled to the Falklands where he flew very hazardous missions, in spite of the Government wanting to bring him home to a desk job the Queen interceded and insisted that since he wore the uniform he must take the risks, a view heartily endorsed by Prince Andrew.

So with all these members of the Royal Family performing gallant service in uniform, often in real peril, you like the Queen Mother best because she once nursed soldiers in Scotland, a place far away from the war in France.

Mind you, you give yourself away by the line “The only newsworthy item we've heard in America about Charles” It may come as a bit of a surprise dear but members of the Royal Family don’t go around preening and prancing for the benefit of trailer trash in the US ( with the exception of Diana of course).

You don’t know any of the Royal Family and your sole source of information seems to be trash magazines, and yet you seem to think you have the right to make such comments about them? You’re a bully, attacking those who can’t hit back – a National trait perhaps?

By the way my name is Bob, I don’t hide behind false names like certain cowardly people.

[Limehouse]

Bob

However much you might disagree with another poster it is completely unacceptable to refer to them as 'a piece of rubbish'.

[claire]

Oh, I'm really ******* sorry, Bob. Cos, you know, your posts are always models of decorum and accuracy. Jesus, if *you* actually read *my* post (and if I had been quoting, I would have used the quote facility; I was scare-quoting the vernacular, not your flaming words), I wasn't having a bloody go at you. I was just sodding clarifying. It seems to me that you're only interested in shouting your views off from the rooftop and if any of us stupid little suckers in the gutter underneath dissent, then you piss on us from your lofty remove.
I ******* give up sometimes.

[Graham]

"Ah, thank you for the menu, Abdul. I'll have the chicken vindaloo and - hic! - another bottle of gin".

[Limehouse]

Oh for goodness sake....it really is quite amusing what impressions people have formed about our Royal Family...whether from media sources,and we all know how misleading they can be sometimes,or from just putting facts and fiction they have created to "fill in the gaps" together,and come up with what we see on our tv's,when "tourists" are interviewed.
Perhaps it's from pure jealousy that we actually have a Royal Family and a historical background that spans centuries,that brings people to type what they think is true,and present it as fact.
I have worked for the Royals,and have signed the official secrets act. I worked for a very senior Royal lady when I was a teenager,who was very close to the throne. Her public persona was very different from her private persona,so all I would say,is...don't judge them,unless you have actually met them,or know the information you have formed your opinion from is entirely correct..THEN you have the right to criticise,if you feel the need to.

Good points Anna - but really - every nation and community has a history that spans centuries. It's just that in some cases - the histories and traditions of the 'little people' are not recognised or valued. The historian E P Thompson did much to champion the concept of 'history from below' which attempts to celebrate the lives and traditions of all people.

The Royals are an odd concept to me. On the one hand - they cannot help being born into that family and they (mostly) take their duties seriously and work very hard. On the other hand - at a time of drastic cuts in services and a freeze of public sector wages - perhaps it's time to ask them to cut back a bit.

The often-called discussed idea that the royals 'bring a lot of money into the country' is fair enough - but there is as much interest in the defunct royal families of France and Russia as there is in our own. Tourists still flock to see the former royal residences etc.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

Oh, I'm really ******* sorry, Bob. Cos, you know, your posts are always models of decorum and accuracy. Jesus, if *you* actually read *my* post (and if I had been quoting, I would have used the quote facility; I was scare-quoting the vernacular, not your flaming words), I wasn't having a bloody go at you. I was just sodding clarifying. It seems to me that you're only interested in shouting your views off from the rooftop and if any of us stupid little suckers in the gutter underneath dissent, then you piss on us from your lofty remove.
I ******* give up sometimes.

Really Claire? Well you fooled me. I really didn’t know that you were “scare-quoting the vernacular, not your flaming words”. I think it must have been when you said in your post 457:

“Come on, Bob...first off you say that Margaret clawed her way out” and “rather than trying to claim that she rose from the gutter”.


I think when you wrote “you say” and “trying to claim” it might have confused me and several other people into thinking that those were my actual words. I see what you are getting at now. So when I say that “Claire wrote the she approves of child murder” I’m not saying you actually said that I’m just scare quoting the vernacular.

Anyway I accept your apology. By the way I managed to make my reply to you without being abusive and personally offensive, I see you can’t.

[Limehouse]

Really Claire? Well you fooled me. I really didn’t know that you were “scare-quoting the vernacular, not your flaming words”. I think it must have been when you said in your post 457:

“Come on, Bob...first off you say that Margaret clawed her way out” and “rather than trying to claim that she rose from the gutter”.


I think when you wrote “you say” and “trying to claim” it might have confused me and several other people into thinking that those were my actual words. I see what you are getting at now. So when I say that “Claire wrote the she approves of child murder” I’m not saying you actually said that I’m just scare quoting the vernacular.

Anyway I accept your apology. By the way I managed to make my reply to you without being abusive and personally offensive, I see you can’t.

Amazing that this comment (bold and underlined by me) should have been made by a man who - only a few posts back - referred to two posters as 'garbage like you ' and 'a piece of rubbish'.