Use of apostrophe's

[The Grave Maurice]

...I also think that English as a language is the most appalling mish mash of silly rules (which half the time aren't rules like "i before e") and random construction etc, that it's a wonder anyone can speak and write it correctly.

I'm not so sure about that. It still seems to me that English is the most modern of the modern languages. Sure it's still got some picky rules, but look at French. There you've always got to worry about what adjective agrees with what noun, and you've got to know the gender of the noun before you even start. And don't even talk to me about the verbs. In German you've got all the same problems, but you have to save up your verbs until the end of the sentence. I dunno, all in all, I think English is a pretty easy ride.

[caz]

I am officially bored now. People can stick their apostrophes anywhere they like as far as I am concerned if they are not bigging themselves up or slagging anyone off in the process.

Have a great apostrophe-free weekend all.

Love,

Ca'z
XXX

[Simon Wood]

The apostrophe’s often abused:
It gets battered, and bruised, and misused.
On a plural, a blight;
For possessives, just right,

Barring “its”, which leaves people confused.

Paul Cowan

[Chris]

I am officially bored now.

After Ive gone to all the trouble of starting a thread on you're favourite subject?

[caz]

Yes Chris.

Sorry.

A good 99% of the apostrophe mishaps I see on these boards don't get me excited at all. I only reach for my little red pen if the offender appears to be begging for it.

Love,

Caz
X

[Stewart P Evans]

Presumably

...
A good 99% of the apostrophe mishaps I see on these boards don't get me excited at all. I only reach for my little red pen if the offender appears to be begging for it.
...Caz
X

Which, presumably, I was? However, I will say that it was only a switching of characters when typing, rather than a grammatical error. Something I often do when typing too quickly.

[Chris]

I only reach for my little red pen if the offender appears to be begging for it.

Ah yes. Well, of course, it was always rather obvious that there were other considerations in play, apart from concern about the misuse of the poor little apostrophe's.

[caz]

Only 'rather' obvious, Chris? And there's me going out of my way to make it as bleedin' obvious as possible. I never aim my red pen at anyone sharing the love and being generally affable. Nor do I do it to anyone who has genuine difficulties with punctuation. I only get the urge when someone who should jolly well know better goes off on one or starts showing off.

Which, presumably, I was? However, I will say that it was only a switching of characters when typing, rather than a grammatical error. Something I often do when typing too quickly.

Hi Stewart,

Missed character, surely? I'm sure you didn't mean to type Nichol's instead of Nichols'.

But as I said on the thread in question, it turned out that I deserved the spanking because although I still prefer the sources that give Nichols's as the correct version, other sources differ and some say it's more a matter of style and personal preference than right or wrong.

Have a good weekend chaps.

Love,

Caz
X

[Chris]

I only get the urge when someone who should jolly well know better goes off on one or starts showing off.

Or when it suit's you to criticise someones punctuation rather than addressing the substance of what they have posted, of course.

[johns]

I'm not so sure about that. It still seems to me that English is the most modern of the modern languages. Sure it's still got some picky rules, but look at French. There you've always got to worry about what adjective agrees with what noun, and you've got to know the gender of the noun before you even start. And don't even talk to me about the verbs. In German you've got all the same problems, but you have to save up your verbs until the end of the sentence. I dunno, all in all, I think English is a pretty easy ride.

Yeah the verb thing in German seems silly I guess... never spoke it myself but it seems weird.

French winds me up so much it's untrue. They haven't even got a word for the number 90 for pity's sake. Quatre Vingt Dix ... or some such crap... It's like a maths lesson.

And all these genders... pffft... yeah like "table" is feminine or whatever... get a grip.

[Stephen Thomas]

And all these genders... pffft... yeah like "table" is feminine or whatever... get a grip.

Indeed, John.

We have 'he', 'she', 'it'.

The French only have 'he' and 'she'.

That's why English is the world language and French will wither and die.

Inanimate objects and ideas cannot possibly have sexuality.

Is Casebook male or female in French?

Come in DVV, mate.

[Limehouse]

The it's and its problem

People often wonder why, when the word 'its' indicates possession (as in 'the dog chewed its bone') no possessive apostrophe is needed.

Here is the answer.

Possessive apostrophes are only used to show something belongs to a noun:

John's car, children's clothes, computer's software etc.

Its, even when possessive, is not a noun but a possessive pronoun. You will note that other possessive pronouns also do not carry apostrophes: his, hers, our, theirs etc.

Hope that clears things up.

[johns]

Nice one Limehouse....

I hadn't looked at it that way.

So why no "s" after the apostrophe in "Banks' Beer" for example?

Is it a rule or just something that's happened over the years?

[Stewart P Evans]

Preference

...
Hi Stewart,
Missed character, surely? I'm sure you didn't mean to type Nichol's instead of Nichols'.
But as I said on the thread in question, it turned out that I deserved the spanking because although I still prefer the sources that give Nichols's as the correct version, other sources differ and some say it's more a matter of style and personal preference than right or wrong.
...Caz
X

I've always thought that either Nichols' or Nichols's is correct and a matter of preference as to which you choose.

However, a lot of grammatical errors, spelling mistakes and literals are the result of hasty work. I recall that once I inscribed a copy of a book for you using the word 'who's' when it should have been 'whose'. I realised instantly what I had done but too late to correct without making a real mess. And boy was that the wrong place to make such an error!

[Limehouse]

Hi Johns,

Well, I guess that in 'Banks Beer' the Banks refers to a brand. When it comes to brands, companies often drop what should be possessive apostrophes to save cost (the additional character costs more in art work, printing, the assemblement of advertising signs etc) but mostly I would guess they drop it to make the brand name look tidier. Likewise, you will often find that councils decide to drop possessive apostrophes in street names and place names - thus my sister-in-law lives in Robin Hoods Way - ironic really, as that street is in Boston, Lincolnshire - the home town of the Apostrophe Protection Society!

Incidently, has anyone else noticed how often capital letters are dropped for people's names, place names etc on television? This does not only happen in rolling credits, but in captions and it happens in all sorts of programmes! I watched an interesting documentary featuring people from different cities giving their views on the topic. Each person's name and the city they represented was captioned in lower case all the way through! It drives me insane! How can I possibly convince students to take things like this seriously in essays and other formal forms of writing when they see terrible examples like that on the BBC!