Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[DVV]

I ask you again What have you read?

Bugliosi, Sanders, Manson in his own words, Tex Watson's book, Atkins book.

Even Manson doesn't deny he was at Spahn Ranch when they went to kill Tate.

And his presence is confirmed by Kasabian, Atkins, Tex, etc.

If you really want to prove he wasn't there, well...good luck.

Amitiés,
David

[Ally]

I am going to try to use the small words to make you understand. Charles Manson did not directly kill anyone. He did not stab anyone. He is guilty of everyone's murder by conspiracy. He is equally guilty of every murder he had prior or post knowledge of by virtue of his willing complicity and silence and assistance before and after the fact.

Even though he did not directly kill a single person he is guilty of all their murders.

Now I am going to take that same paragraph and apply it to Van Houten:

Van Houten did directly kill someone. She did stab someone. She is guilty of everyone's murder by conspiracy. She is equally guilty of every murder she had prior or post knowledge of by virtue of her willing complicity and silence and assistance before and after the fact.


Even though she only killed a single person she is guilty of all their murders.


Van Houten is a mass murderer. Just like Manson.

[DVV]

As to "Manson killed noone", well...Hitler didn't kill anybody.

[belinda]

-----------------------------

Board member Sharon Lawin said she was not impressed with Van Houten's "superficial expressions of remorse."

All five Manson cult members are in jail, but Van Houten was considered to have the best chance for parole.

She and other Manson followers entered the LaBiancas' Los Angeles house in 1969, believing that random murder would lead to an apocalyptic race war. Van Houten held down Rosemary LaBianca as Tex Watson stabbed her. Then she took the knife and continued stabbing.

The previous night, cult members - minus Van Houten - killed pregnant actress Sharon Tate and painted slogans on the walls in her blood.

Relatives of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca told the board that if Van Houten could not be executed, she should remain in prison forever.

"Leslie Van Houten is a vicious and evil killer," said Louis Smaldino, nephew of the LaBiancas.

[DVV]

Even though she only killed a single person she is guilty of all their murders.

I've agreed hundred times.
And still agree, although the tag "mass murderer" doesn't really fit.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=DVV;127393]

Even Manson doesn't deny he was at Spahn Ranch when they went to kill Tate.

Manson was not there when they went to kill Tate. This is confirmed by every source.

If you really want to prove he wasn't there, well...good luck.

I'd say the same regarding your claims. No one has ever said Manson was actually at the Tate killing. It is well known he wasn't there.

[Magpie]

Very well. Now can you tell us more about her implication ?
Did she give instructions to Tex ?
Did she send him to 10050 Cielo Drive ?
Did she give them knives and rope ?
Did she order Linda to drive ?
Has any family member ever say he was under Leslie's influence ?

I thought I was quite clear. The Tate's were killed as part of a conspiracy. Leslie as a part of that conspiracy. Ergo, Leslie is associated with the Tate murders.

More importantly, the very first time she said so (ie: Mrs LaBianca was already dead) was just after the murder, that was not at a parole hearing.
Anyway, that doesn't make her less guilty.

Then you and FreeLeslie better get your story straight, because he just said exactly the opposite.

Stephen Kay doesn't know what to think.
Trouble is that he talks too much.

Irrelevant. The point is that he didn't say what FreeLeslie said he did.

She hasn't stabbed Leno LaBianca, that's a fact.
She's one of his murderers.
And she knows it.

Irrelevant.

Equally guilty ? Certainly not. They're all guilty, no doubt.
Still, the murders were masterminded by Manson, and this has been proven by all accounts, and has been essential for the prosecution.
Without Manson, the LaBiancas wouldn't have been killed.

Do we have to start this again? It doesn't matter what you, personally, may think. The law says that all conspirators are equally guilty. You can put your fingers in your ears and sing "la la la" as loud as you want, it doesn't change what the law says.

40 years in jail, that's something, no ?

Not if it hasn't resulted in a genuine understanding of what she did, then no.

[Ally]

I've agreed hundred times.
And still agree, although the tag "mass murderer" doesn't really fit.

It fits exactly. You claim she is treated unfairly and her punishment doesn't fit the crime. You are again contradicting yourself. If she is guilty of participating in the mass murders of seven people, she is being punished EXACTLY as such a person would be: no person who is responsible for the mass murders of seven people by deed or conspiracy has ever been released for parole.

[DVV]

Board member Sharon Lawin said she was not impressed with Van Houten's "superficial expressions of remorse."

Many others have a different view.

She and other Manson followers entered the LaBiancas' Los Angeles house in 1969, believing that random murder would lead to an apocalyptic race war. Van Houten held down Rosemary LaBianca as Tex Watson stabbed her. Then she took the knife and continued stabbing.

Not exactly. Van Houten held down Mrs LaBianca while Krenwinkel stabbed her.
Then Tex stabbed her too.
And then he told Leslie : "Do something!"

Relatives of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca told the board that if Van Houten could not be executed, she should remain in prison forever.

"Leslie Van Houten is a vicious and evil killer," said Louis Smaldino, nephew of the LaBiancas.

Well, no wonder. What she did was evil and vicious.

[DVV]

It fits exactly. You claim she is treated unfairly and her punishment doesn't fit the crime. You are again contradicting yourself. If she is guilty of participating in the mass murders of seven people, she is being punished EXACTLY as such a person would be: no person who is responsible for the mass murders of seven people by deed or conspiracy has ever been released for parole.

That's not exactly my thoughts.
If she's never paroled, I'll have to accept that.
She has taken two lives.

What I feel is that she's remorseful, genuinely, and that after 40 years, she should be released.

[Magpie]

And it mentioned that the parole people had considered what the public think. Why?
WHat do the public know about the complex matter of awarding parole to infamous prisoners? Nothing other than what their knee-jerk reactions tell them.

The public knows whether they want a a vicious mass murderer in their midst or not, and they have the right to make their feelings known. The fact that 40 years on people are still shocked and appalled by these crimes is a testament to their egregiousness.

[Magpie]

What I feel is that she's remorseful, genuinely, and that after 40 years, she should be released.

And that's awesome, David. Nothing wrong with that point of view and I'll defend to the death (well, to moderate personal inconvenience) your right to hold and express that opinion. However wrong you may be.

[DVV]

And no, the tag "mass murderer" doesn't really fit.
She is implicated in a very strange murder case which is definitely hard to classify.
For what she did, she can hardly be considered a mass murderer.

From a dictionary:
"Van Houten (Leslie): American mass murderer who stabbed one person in 1969."

[Magpie]

]

Many others have a different view.

And when those others are on the parole board, their views might mean something.

Not exactly. Van Houten held down Mrs LaBianca while Krenwinkel stabbed her.
Then Tex stabbed her too.
And then he told Leslie : "Do something!"

And she did. She did between 16 and 20 somethings, any one of which might have been one of the 8 fatal wounds. Krenwinkel didn't kill Rosemary--if she had, Leslie wouldn't have had to get Tex. Why aren't you defending Krenwinkel?

[DVV]

And that's awesome, David. Nothing wrong with that point of view and I'll defend to the death (well, to moderate personal inconvenience) your right to hold and express that opinion. However wrong you may be.

Thanks, Magpie.
I know you think I'm wrong, and you certainly guess I'm sure I'm right.

Amitiés,
David