Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[DVV]

I'm disappointed.
That's insulting and stupid.
Glad to know we differ about Leslie.

[DVV]

And ironically the one person who has fully accepted responsibility for his crimes instead of invoking the Charlie bogeyman at every opportunity (Bobby) doesn't get even a fraction of the consideration you demand for your sweetheart.

Is that because he's not as hot as Leslie, or what?

It's a public discussion and I'm sorry it ended like that.

For those who don't know much about the case, suffice to say that Bobby Beausoleil, decades after, still tries to exonerate Manson.
BB tortured and killed his friend Hinman, after Manson cut his ear.
Manson and Beausoleil would have us believe that it was a drug burn gone wild. Which is proven false by Brunner, Atkins, DeCarlo and co, Davis...in short, everybody.
Including Beausoleil first testimony.

[The Good Michael]

On the one hand we ask people to show remorse and patience and understanding, and on the other, when they miraculously do so, we turn our faces away.

Because as individuals we can be decent folk, but as groups we are total shyte; humanity in its entirety.

Mike

[Magpie]

I'm disappointed.
That's insulting and stupid.

Well, you started out making all sorts of rational or legalistic sounding claims to support your contention that a brutal murderer should me free, and as I knocked them down one by one using actually evidence you've been forced to drop every one of them until you're down to "She's perfect! She's More than perfect. Shes so good and kind and such a strong person".

So it looks pretty much like your desire to see her free is not based on an legal or rational basis, but rather your personal feeling for her.

If I'm wrong, feel free to point out where I went wrong.

[DVV]

Many thanks, Mike.
It's almost dawn and I lack words.

[Magpie]

It's a public discussion and I'm sorry it ended like that.

For those who don't know much about the case, suffice to say that Bobby Beausoleil, decades after, still tries to exonerate Manson..

No, what Bobby has done is admit that he killed Hinman, that he is responisble for Hinman's death, that he knew what he was doing when he did it, and that he deserves to be in prison for it.

And that, my friend, is accepting responsibility, not blaming the big bad Manson bogeyman for your wrongdoing.


And I notice that you didn't include your muse among the people who admitted to being there.... Could that be because your repentent, good, strong, perfect woman has steadfastly refused to talk about the Hinman murder since she first admitting being there at her trial?

And you still haven't answered my earlier question: Was Leslie lying when she repeatedly claimed that Bobby was not enthralled by Charlie, and that in fact it was Charlie who was desperate for Bobby to stick around?

[DVV]

Well, you started out making all sorts of rational or legalistic sounding claims to support your contention that a brutal murderer should me free, and as I knocked them down one by one using actually evidence you've been forced to drop every one of them until you're down to "She's perfect! She's More than perfect. Shes so good and kind and such a strong person".

So it looks pretty much like your desire to see her free is not based on an legal or rational basis, but rather your personal feeling for her.

If I'm wrong, feel free to point out where I went wrong.

I feel free, no worries.

Of course it's legal and also personal.

Legal because she has the right to stand for parole.

Personal because a parole hearing is about remorse, understanding, shame...

Human feelings that I just can identify and appreciate as a human being.

[DVV]

No, what Bobby has done is admit that he killed Hinman, that he is responisble for Hinman's death, that he knew what he was doing when he did it, and that he deserves to be in prison for it.

And that, my friend, is accepting responsibility, not blaming the big bad Manson bogeyman for your wrongdoing.


And I notice that you didn't include your muse among the people who admitted to being there.... Could that be because your repentent, good, strong, perfect woman has steadfastly refused to talk about the Hinman murder since she first admitting being there at her trial?

And you still haven't answered my earlier question: Was Leslie lying when she repeatedly claimed that Bobby was not enthralled by Charlie, and that in fact it was Charlie who was desperate for Bobby to stick around?

You're making a great mistake.
It's up to you to be a Manson-freak, but it remains that he is behind all these murders.
As soon as he slashed Hinman's face, Bobby had to kill him. For Hinman would have gone to the police.
Hence Manson (to Bobby): "You know what to do."

And the least a parole board should expect from a Manson follower is to be detached from Manson influence.

Bobby is not.

[Magpie]

I

Legal because she has the right to stand for parole.

.

And nobody's interfered with that right.

[Magpie]

You're making a great mistake.
It's up to you to be a Manson-freak, but it remains that he is behind all these murders.
As soon as he slashed Hinman's face, Bobby had to kill him. For Hinman would have gone to the police.
Hence Manson (to Bobby): "You know what to do."

And the least a parole board should expect from a Manson follower is to be detached from Manson influence.

Bobby is not.

And that's the second time you've evaded the answer.

I'll ask again slowly. Is Leslie Van Houten lying when she has repeatedly said that Bobby was not enthralled with Manson, but that Manson was desperate for Bobby to stay.

[DVV]

And you still haven't answered my earlier question: Was Leslie lying when she repeatedly claimed that Bobby was not enthralled by Charlie, and that in fact it was Charlie who was desperate for Bobby to stick around?

Repeadly??

Well...

The fact is that Bobby was a musician, had his own "harem" (including Leslie), and logically Manson did pay more attention to him than to Scramblehead.

Add to this that there seemed to exist some kind of mutual attraction between them. And that's all Leslie said. Not repeatedly, because it's no more her bizness, and because she is seldom questioned about that.

Fact is Bobby phoned Charlie from Hinman's residence...and you know why ? Because he didn't know what to do.
Dear Charlie told him what to do.
MURDER.

And once again, lastly, Leslie said she saw Bobby "orally servicing" Manson.
Not the reverse.
And I don't care about them.

[DVV]

And that's the second time you've evaded the answer.

I have no question to evade.
Some pointless ones are sometimes unnoticed.

There are also questions that I've answered several times.

[Magpie]

Repeadly??



Add to this that there seemed to exist some kind of mutual attraction between them. And that's all Leslie said.

Wrong (again)

Leslie Van Houtens Parole Hearing testimony 1993:

"...Bobby Beausoliel was very important to Manson and he viewed me as a way of keeping Bobby around the ranch. And so to think that I was absolutely intrigued and mesmerized by Manson and I believed he was someone very special and extraordinary. And I think that perhaps he viewed me as a way to keep and lure Bobby to the ranch to be with him."

And her 2002 interview with Larry King:

VAN HOUTEN: No. He -- I had come to the ranch through another man, Robert Beausoleil, and Robert Beausoleil was very important to Manson, and there is a lot of speculation as to why, but who knows.

KING: But Robert was your, like, lover?

VAN HOUTEN: Yes. And so Manson always treated me in a way that I belonged to Bobby, and, you know. I was sort of used, I think, as bait to get to keep Bobby...

Two accounts, largely consistent. At least one of which was presumably after Leslie was elevated to the ranks of the great and good.

So again, was she lying?

[Magpie]

Repeadly??

Well...

The fact is that Bobby was a musician, had his own "harem" (including Leslie), and logically Manson did pay more attention to him than to Scramblehead.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Many of The Family were musicians. Charlie was a musician. Bobby was something special for Charlie, and it's telling that Bobby's sudden removal both put Charlie in undisputed control of Bobby's "harem" and started the downward spiral that peaked with the Tate-Labianca murders.

[DVV]

You should open your window and have some fresh air, my dear.

She's not lying.

She's telling what she saw/understood.

And we already know that : Manson and Bobby had a special and equivocal relashionship, due to music interest, the fact that they were both "charming" in their ways, and perhaps bisexuality.

Nothing new here.

That Bobby had not the profile of a complete Manson-zombie doesn't mean he wasn't at all under his influence at all (hence Manson's role in the Hinman murder - and please note Bobby was at that time with Mary Brunner and Atkins, not with his own girls), and it doesn't mean either that Manson did not control the Family - so to speak.