Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[doris]

Ah I see ally.

Although Iam unsure whether she should be released or not.
As far as I can see the only criteria which needs considering is, is the person likely to re-offend?

If they aren't likely to surely the only reason to keep them banged up is to slake societies primitive desire for vengence.

And sorry to keep going on about Hierons but surely the actions of the police at the time of arrest are sufficient to cause reasonable doubt? In that case shouldnt he be released?

I always think that irrespective of the crime if the police dont act perfectly in accord with the law the criminal should be given the benefit of the doubt.

If police dont play properly why should anyone else?

doris

[Magpie]

That's their job.
As you well understand, had only ONE report concluded that Leslie wasn't suitable for parole, the victims' family would have let us know...

If there was ONE report that said what you said NO reports said, then your repeated claim that ALL (and you keep emphasizing ALL) the experts agree is not only false, but a demonstratble lie.

[DVV]

Of course it was partisan. That was the point. DVV is reading a partisan website and getting all his info from that site, so the other side puts up theirs and the truth is in the middle.

Certainly not.
I read everything I can read about the case.

Including John Waters, who is far more balanced than you seem to imply.

Nobody denies the horror of the crimes, nor Leslie's guilt and responsability.

But 40 years may be enough.

You're welcome to disagree, but like it or not, dozens of criminals are paroled every year.

Amitiés,
David

[Ally]

Yes dozens of criminals are paroled every year. Thieves, and drug addicts, rapists and even the odd murderer. Serial murderers and mass murderers are not released every year and certainly not in the dozens.

[DVV]

Is this full responsibility:

"Yes, yes. You know, I didn't take Mrs. LaBianca's life, but I feel as responsible as if I had."

This is in the 21st century and she's still banging on about how she didn't kill Rosemary.

She continues:

"She was dead before you were stabbing her?"

" I felt that she was. And in my early years, it gave me some kind of comfort, and then as, of course, I matured, and my understanding of responsibility took greater depth, you know, it doesn't make that much difference to me"

Thanks for that.

Leslie, indeed, means that what she did is as much horrible as what the other killers did - those who gave the fatal stabs.

[DVV]

Serial murderers and mass murderers are not released every year and certainly not in the dozens.

True. They're not released because they still represent a danger.

[Ally]

No, 80-90 year old criminals don't represent much of a danger. But they stay in prison because they committed a crime that DEMANDS that they pay with their lives.

You may call it what you will, be it our bloodthirsty nature or simple logic, but a life demands a life. And if you kill someone, you shouldn't be free to take up your life until your victim is free to take up theirs. Why should she get to live the life she denied her victims?

And you STILL haven't managed to come forward with the name of a single "expert" who is recommending her parole.

[DVV]

Ally, these experts say so, I've quoted one of them, does his name matter ?

As for the stance "a life demands a life", I think we can be a little better than that, but this logic isn't barbaric, imo.

Amitiés,
David

[Ally]

Yes actually the names do matter. When someone is being called an expert, and his or her opinion is being given more weight than others based on that expert opinion, then absolutely YES the name does matter. Otherwise that expert opinion is worthless.

And there are not MANY experts for calling for her release. Tehre is ONE document that is quoted and repeated in every pro-Leslie website out there. ONE opinion that states she is rehabilitated and deserves to be released.

There are no MANY expert opinions. There is one prison psychiatrist, who for all we know graduated from Mexico's Get your Psych Degree online with Five easy payments University who is saying she is suitable for parole.

And frankly, I do not care if she is perfectly reformed. In my opinion, if she truly felt the responsibility for what she had done, if she truly felt the horror of her crimes, then she would understand that society and justice demands she remain where she belongs.

She doesn't care. She doesn't even know the ages of the two people's whose lives she murdered. She is completely indifferent to the magnitude of what she did. And while she might mouth platitudes about her responsibility and her understanding, the fact that she couldn't recall a most basic fact about the two people she helped to slaughter speaks more than any lip service she pays to understanding her responsibility.

[DVV]

No, Ally.

And as I've pointed out, Bugliosi himself said...what I've quoted above...

Simply, I don't know the experts names, but it's pretty clear that she is considered to be remorseful and not dangerous to others.

And it's just a pub talk about what casebookers may feel about her possible release, Ally.
We are not trying her again.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

In my opinion, if she truly felt the responsibility for what she had done, if she truly felt the horror of her crimes, then she would understand that society and justice demands she remain where she belongs.

Society and justice give her the right to stand for parole, Ally.

[Ally]

Yep. And society and justice have the right to deny it to her.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=DVV;127252]No, Ally.

And as I've pointed out, Bugliosi himself said...what I've quoted above...

And again I say. SO WHAT? He's not a psychiatrist. He's a lawyer and a hack book writer. His opinion is of no more weight than anyone elses. And where precisely did he ever say that he thought she SHOULD be freed by now? He merely stated he thought she WOULD. Vast difference and probably more of an indictment on California's admittedly liberal touchy feely justice system than a statement on Van Houtens character.

Simply, I don't know the experts names, but it's pretty clear that she is considered to be remorseful and not dangerous to others.

That's because there are no expertS. There is one psychiatrists opinion. And it is not pretty clear that she is considered remorseful and not dangerous. Of all the manson women she was the one who was LEAST in thrall of Manson. She was the least likely to be swayed by his "influence" and one psychiatrist said that she was least likely to be rehabilitated. SO I have one psych opinion by someone whose name I actually know, against some anonymous opinion who says she should be released.

And it's just a pub talk about what casebookers may feel about her possible release, Ally.
We are not trying her again.

Yeah she's already been tried and found guilty twice now. No need to do it again. She's guilty and she should rot in prison. That's what I think.

[DVV]

Bugliosi is not a psychiatrist, but he surely knew the experts conclusions.

I have no problem at all with your opinion.
Mine is that she should be released.

[Stephen Thomas]

Had you gone with them, this thread could have been :

"Stephen Thomas should be released on parole."

One never knows does one David and as I said those were strange days. Have you read 'The White Album' by Joan Didion? It concludes with the observation that, given the craziness of the late 60s, the utterly disgusting Manson murders didn't surprise people too much.

The meeting was in a cafe towards the bottom of Topanga Canyon

Malibu, Los Angeles, August 1968