Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[Ally]

"They can't use the crime forever and ever. That turns her sentence into life without parole."
Judge Krug

She's not dead yet. They can grant her parole on her 99th birthday.

And again, she's not a mass murderer.

Yes she is. She was in the house where two people died and she participated. If two people go and shoot forty people it doesn't legitimately matter if one killed 22 and one killed 18.

She as a part of a group killed two people. She knew going into that house that they were going to kill everyone in it. She is a multiple murderer in fact.

And she knew full well of the Tate murders and she bears equal responsibility for their deaths.

Ally,
With all due respect, I have spent countless hours reading and reviewing testimony, coroner's report, parole hearings, California law, etc. You do not want to get into a discussion of the facts with me. There are five factual errors in your response rant above.

Your best bet is to stay out there on the edge and lob insults and innuendo.

Your beliefs to not bother nor threaten me, I wish you well.

FreeLeslie

[DVV]

Once again...(Thanks to Leslie who taught me patience...):

"They can't use the crime forever and ever. That turns her sentence into life without parole."
Judge Krug

And again, she's not a mass murderer.

[Ally]

.

Except for the crime itself, they have no arguments to deny her parole.

Except for the crime itself? Er...the crime itself is generally what DOES keep people in prison. And mass murderers don't get let out for good behavior.

[DVV]

I am a supporter of the release of Leslie Van Houten, it has been too long!

In response to the above, she has been continually and consistently given excellent reviews from the prison doctors as suitable for parole. She is being treated like a political prisoner.

Other reasons:

1. She was the youngest defendant and to me the most vulnerable of the groups that went on those two horrible nights.
2. She did the least as compared to SA, PK, and Tex. That said, "least' is an inappropriate word. As I have said many times, her acts of violence were terrible and are not to be lessened nor mitigated by what others have done.
3. Since 1973 (which I feel is post-Manson) she has done the most with her time in prison, though some could make a case that PK has been just as productive.
4. Right or wrong, I believe every word she has said in her parole hearings and interviews. I understand that in many cases they conflict with her statements pretrial and during the trial. I never felt this way watching SA, PK or Tex.
5. She fell in love (or became infatuated) with BB, met Gypsy and ended up in an environment that many say was "wonderful" until about June-July 1969. She was too young and immature to do what many did (got the hell out of there) when the situation changed.

The State of California is not honoring their sentence. How does one have the possibility of parole and then does everything perfectly, and yet she rots in jail. California is applying cruel and unusual punishment.

Thanks for the read and support,

FreeLeslie

True and well said.

Her last parole hearings were just a sadistic game.

Except for the crime itself, they have no arguments to deny her parole.

Amitiés,
David

[Ally]

Oh goodie the lunatic fringe arrives.

I am a supporter of the release of Leslie Van Houten, it has been too long!

No it hasn't.

In response to the above, she has been continually and consistently given excellent reviews from the prison doctors as suitable for parole.

Source? Documents? Evidence? oh right...there are none.

She is being treated like a political prisoner.

No she isn't. She's being treated like the cold-blooded murdering bitch that she is.

1. She was the youngest defendant and to me the most vulnerable of the groups that went on those two horrible nights.

The most vulnerable? SHE ASKED to go. She was also the one who by her own admission was LEAST in the thrall of Manson. What she did, she did of her own free will and choice. She was over the age of consent and was a legal adult. Her age is entirely irrelevant.

2. She did the least as compared to SA, PK, and Tex. That said, "least' is an inappropriate word. As I have said many times, her acts of violence were terrible and are not to be lessened nor mitigated by what others have done.

So what that she did "the least". She was a willful participant in action and support in the slaughter of half a dozen people. The fact that she only wielded the knife once is irrelevant. She bears equal responsibility for every single person who died in that plot as much as someone who builds a bomb is as responsible for the deaths it causes as the person who actually detonates it.

3. Since 1973 (which I feel is post-Manson) she has done the most with her time in prison, though some could make a case that PK has been just as productive.

Whoopty freaking do. If only she'd made the choice do the most with her time while she was on the outside. It's easy for a cult following weak minded type to do well in prison. They require someone to lead them and tell them what to do. Lots of truly evil hideous people are model prisoners. It has no bearing on what they choose to do when given the freedom to act as they choose. And we've seen how she chooses to act when allowed her own way.

4. Right or wrong, I believe every word she has said in her parole hearings and interviews. I understand that in many cases they conflict with her statements pretrial and during the trial. I never felt this way watching SA, PK or Tex.

And that's your belief. I don't care about beliefs. I care about facts. And the fact is, she murdered people. There is no going back from that. There is no second chance for her victims and therefore, no second chance for her.

5. She fell in love (or became infatuated) with BB, met Gypsy and ended up in an environment that many say was "wonderful" until about June-July 1969. She was too young and immature to do what many did (got the hell out of there) when the situation changed.

Oh what a crock of crap. She had full choice and full will and there is no "falling in love" excuse on the planet suitable to justify what she did. She was NOT that young. Everyone on this board has been 19 and in love. And we don't go around slaughtering people because of it. It was her BAD decisions and her bad choices and the fact that she is the kind of person who would do that sort of thing is NOT attributable to age, but to a flawed character.

The State of California is not honoring their sentence. How does one have the possibility of parole and then does everything perfectly, and yet she rots in jail. California is applying cruel and unusual punishment.

The possibility of parole is NOT a guarantee of parole. And perhaps, unlike you, they don't believe her protestations of responsibility since she seems to contradict them every other sentence.

[Stephen Thomas]

Hey

I like your style FL.

Free Leslie

I am a supporter of the release of Leslie Van Houten, it has been too long!

In response to the above, she has been continually and consistently given excellent reviews from the prison doctors as suitable for parole. She is being treated like a political prisoner.

Other reasons:

1. She was the youngest defendant and to me the most vulnerable of the groups that went on those two horrible nights.
2. She did the least as compared to SA, PK, and Tex. That said, "least' is an inappropriate word. As I have said many times, her acts of violence were terrible and are not to be lessened nor mitigated by what others have done.
3. Since 1973 (which I feel is post-Manson) she has done the most with her time in prison, though some could make a case that PK has been just as productive.
4. Right or wrong, I believe every word she has said in her parole hearings and interviews. I understand that in many cases they conflict with her statements pretrial and during the trial. I never felt this way watching SA, PK or Tex.
5. She fell in love (or became infatuated) with BB, met Gypsy and ended up in an environment that many say was "wonderful" until about June-July 1969. She was too young and immature to do what many did (got the hell out of there) when the situation changed.

The State of California is not honoring their sentence. How does one have the possibility of parole and then does everything perfectly, and yet she rots in jail. California is applying cruel and unusual punishment.

Thanks for the read and support,

FreeLeslie

[DVV]

Bugliosi of course never said she should be freed, but he observed that, thanks to her improvement, remorse, prison records, etc, she wasn't a desperate case for parole.

[Ally]

But again Bugilosi has never said that he thought she SHOULD be freed. Or if he has I would like to know the source.

So where did he ever put forth his opinion that she is deserving of being released from prison?

[DVV]

Interesting thought, Stephen (Joan Didion).

True, those years were strange (as far as I can make out...being born between the Hinman and the Tate murders), sweet and crazy at the same time.

I've just bought "1969, the year everything changed" by one Rob Kirkpatrick.
Seems a good book, but I haven't read it yet.

Amitiés,
David

[Stephen Thomas]

Had you gone with them, this thread could have been :

"Stephen Thomas should be released on parole."

One never knows does one David and as I said those were strange days. Have you read 'The White Album' by Joan Didion? It concludes with the observation that, given the craziness of the late 60s, the utterly disgusting Manson murders didn't surprise people too much.

The meeting was in a cafe towards the bottom of Topanga Canyon

Malibu, Los Angeles, August 1968

[DVV]

Bugliosi is not a psychiatrist, but he surely knew the experts conclusions.

I have no problem at all with your opinion.
Mine is that she should be released.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=DVV;127252]No, Ally.

And as I've pointed out, Bugliosi himself said...what I've quoted above...

And again I say. SO WHAT? He's not a psychiatrist. He's a lawyer and a hack book writer. His opinion is of no more weight than anyone elses. And where precisely did he ever say that he thought she SHOULD be freed by now? He merely stated he thought she WOULD. Vast difference and probably more of an indictment on California's admittedly liberal touchy feely justice system than a statement on Van Houtens character.

Simply, I don't know the experts names, but it's pretty clear that she is considered to be remorseful and not dangerous to others.

That's because there are no expertS. There is one psychiatrists opinion. And it is not pretty clear that she is considered remorseful and not dangerous. Of all the manson women she was the one who was LEAST in thrall of Manson. She was the least likely to be swayed by his "influence" and one psychiatrist said that she was least likely to be rehabilitated. SO I have one psych opinion by someone whose name I actually know, against some anonymous opinion who says she should be released.

And it's just a pub talk about what casebookers may feel about her possible release, Ally.
We are not trying her again.

Yeah she's already been tried and found guilty twice now. No need to do it again. She's guilty and she should rot in prison. That's what I think.

[Ally]

Yep. And society and justice have the right to deny it to her.