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[Mike Covell]

Doctor X,

Albion is the old name for the British Isles - ref: Ptolemy. Derived from the White (or these days mucky grey) Cliffs of Dover.

The land off Cornwall that legend has it sunk beneath the waves is Lyonesse.
They do say that on dark nights if you stand at Lands End you can hear the bells of Lyonesse a-ringin'. I can hear bells anywhere most nights.

Graham

There is a similar legend associated with Whitby in North Yorkshire, this has something to do with one of the bells from the abbey being removed, a curse caused the ship to sink just beyond the harbour, and fishermen have reported hearing the bell tolling under the oceans surface!!

[Limehouse]

The same tale is told of Dunwich in Suffolk. Dunwich was once a major port and thriving town but was washed into the sea many times due to cliff errosion. Numerous churches and their churchyards were lost under the waves, the last being at the turn of the 20th century. Legend has it, on dark stormy nights, you can hear church bells tolling beneath the waves.

[Sam Flynn]

Or Cantre'r Gwaelod, a legendary Dark Age (6th Century) kingdom near - and now under! - Cardigan Bay, in West Wales. The story goes that Prince Seithennin, having quaffed too much mead, forgot to close the flood-gates in the city walls, letting in the tide. The sound of submerged bells can still be heard at night... etc.

[Maria]

Doctor X and Graham:

True Albion refers to the British Isles. The area I was referring to, is Lyonesse off Cornwall.

Only today, in The Guardian newspaper there is an article with a photo of large pieces of Norfolk falling into the sea. The headline says, " Should we abandon Norfolk to the Sea ? It is on the G2 Section page 4. Then it says " Lost to the Sea, How our collapsing coastline could create Britain´s first climate change refugees.

Then it says: Rising seas are changing Britain´s coast dramatically. Norfolk is the first low-lying area to face a stark and cruel new choice- plough millions into doomed defences, or abandon whole villages to the invading waters. The article is written by Patrick Barkham and it shows photos of properties which have had their back-gardens at Beach Road in Happisburgh lost to the sea and where one house was recently valued at 1 pound !

- Maria

[Sam Flynn]

True Albion refers to the British Isles. The area I was referring to, is Lyonesse off Cornwall.

Actually, Maria, it's quite likely that "Lyonesse" originally referred to some area off the Lothian coast - "Lodonesia", Latin for "Lothian", being the probable source of the Frenchified "Lyonesse". It seems that mediaeval writers of chivalric romances took a wild stab at locating this "Lyonesse" off the coast of Cornwall. (See Wikipedia entry for Lyonesse.)

This makes sense in terms of the Cantre'r Gwaelod legend of Welsh folklore. The king of Cantre'r Gwaelod was Gwyddno Garanhir, who first appears in Welsh tradition as one of the chieftains of the "Old North". This was an area of Britain occupied by Brythonic tribes until the 7th Century, when the Saxons and Scots started to drive the Brythons further south and west into Cornwall and Wales. The "Old North" encompassed a large part of Northern England and Southern Scotland, and had a major settlement located at Din Eiddyn, or what is now called Edinburgh, in... Lothian!

[sdreid]

8000 years ago, there was no English Channel so the first refugees from global warming would have been the people who lived in that region.

[Doctor X]

So which one is true?

--J.D.

[Maria]

Graham and Dr. X:

The article shows photos of how that area looked in 1998 and after with photos of 2007 The chunk of terrain gone under its quite substancial by looking at these photos. The article says:

" It was the latest in a series of catastrophic floods. Seawater forced its way through sand dunes and spilled miles across the low-lying lands of North-East Norfolk, spoiling farmlands and destroying homes. After this flood of 1622, it was proposed that the sea be allowed in for good, as far as the village of Potter Heigham, five miles from the coast. Local people and landowners were horrified. Two thousand men were pressganged into repairing the dunes and repelling the " extraordinary force and rage of the sea "

The strategy worked and the waves were turned away from this corner of Norfolk for nearly 400 years.

Last month, however, a new plan closely resembling the retreat first proposed in the 17th century, was leaked to the public. Calling for " embayment " of 25 square miles of low-lying land, the government´s environmental body, Natural England, said that nine miles of sea defences between the seaside villages of Eccles and Winterton were unsustainable " beyond the next 20-50 years " creating the possibility of " realigning the coast " What this cold academic language actually means is wiping part of Norfolk off the map: 600 homes, 6 villages, 5 medieval churches, four freshwater Broadlands lakes, historic windmills, valuable agricultural land would be given up to the rising seas. Britain would have its first climate change refugees.

But the scientific community is unrepentant. They fear that, unlike in the 17th century, community spirit and construction of new barricades will no longer be enough to hold back the sea.

More than 15 million people live next to the coast. One resident said " We are not stupid. We know we live on a coast that has been eroding for thousands of years.

Graham:

Albion only referrs to England. Not Scotland and Wales.

But having said that... The ancient Celts lived in Cornwall as well as in Wales.

- Maria

[Doctor X]

Again, how does any of that rehabilitate Hancock's fabrications or Velikovsky's delusions?

--J.D.

[Maria]

Thank you Gareth and Stan.

Gareth I had heard what you say... and it is uncanny how the stone cottages in Cornwall resemble those from the ones in Wales too. It is also said that the Celts were the original people of the British Isles, whilst the Saxons, the Anglos, the Normans and other tribes from Denmark are immigrants.

- Maria

[Maria]

Doctor X:

I think you are confused !

Hancock doesn´t have anything to do with Velikovsky !!!

I was just comparing that what Velikovsky said many years later about asteroids hitting the earth was something Newton did not accept during his time even though it was proposed, because Newton was a Christian that is all.

Graham Hancock´s work relates to cities or continents which have been sunk under the sea. You said Hancock is a cranck I disagree with you. Hancock is not a crank.

In my past examples I have shown you what most people know to be true as we happen to be living it.

- Maria

[Sam Flynn]

So which one is true?

Flood legends seem to be rather ubiquitous, JD, and some seem to share a common origin - one famous example being the legend of Noah and the earlier story of Utanapishtim. Whilst different, something similar may have happened to the stories of Cantre'r Gwaelod and Lyonesse, the latter perhaps being a faint echo of the older story borrowed by French and English writers of mediaeval romances.

This would suggest that the original "Old North" story trumps the "Arthurian" one by dint of precedence alone, although whether it was based on actual events is debatable. That said, East Lothian (which is where the original "Lyonesse" may well have been located) is to this day prone to flooding, so it's just possible that these legends preserve the story of some ancient flash-flood that overwhelmed a Brythonic settlement in the Dark Ages of the last millennium.

[Maria]

There is a similar legend associated with Whitby in North Yorkshire, this has something to do with one of the bells from the abbey being removed, a curse caused the ship to sink just beyond the harbour, and fishermen have reported hearing the bell tolling under the oceans surface!!

Mike:

Yes, I have heard of that one as well.

- Maria

[Sam Flynn]

Graham:

Albion only referrs to England. Not Scotland and Wales.

I believe it refers to the whole of Britain, Maria - indeed, the name is preserved in the Welsh word for Scotland, which is "Alban".

[Tom_Wescott]

Oh no, Sam's started on his podiatry again. Hide your schitz's!!!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott