Was it Van Gogh, Carroty Mustache?

[Henry Flower]

Did Van Gogh give his ear to a prostitute? Yes.

NO. Wrong, Dale. Wrong.

Vincent gave his ear to a cleaning girl named Gabrielle. She had been badly bitten by a rabid dog the previous year and worked as a cleaning girl at the brothel to pay off her medical bills. Vincent would've known her, and would've known she was not a prostitute.

Repeat - she was not a prostitute, never, and Vincent would definitely have known that. If this is the standard of research in your book then I fervently hope nobody wastes a nickel on it, because you've not done your research. This is utterly incompetent. You should be ashamed.

Remember how when he worked as a missionary pastor with the miners at the Borinage, he slept on a bare floor and gave literally everything he had to help those poorer than himself? How he ripped up his own few clothes to use as bandages for injured miners? I don't doubt that in his increasingly disturbed state that winter he gave his own flesh to a girl who he knew had medical problems. He probably thought of her scars and her debts and identified with her, or thought she would identify with him.

This had nothing to do with any of the slight cuts to Ripper victims' ears in a city he cannot be shown to have visited even once during 1888.

I disagree with Stead - there is nothing admirable or laudable in this flagrantly mercenary attempt to warp or ignore the evidence in an effort to frame a mentally ill, but innocent and fundamentally good man for disgusting crimes. It's not admirable, it's not to be applauded. It's disgusting, and it's utterly amoral.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well said Henry

[Henry Flower]

What attack on Gauguin, Dale?

You mean the incident where, in Gauguin's account, Vincent walked towards him holding a razor, but then ran off and attacked himself instead? We only have Gauguin's account, and it describes no attack.

So you agree there was no 'attack' on Gauguin?

Good. And now stop lying.

Gauguin's abandonment of a mentally ill friend who idolised him and harmed himself certainly looks less cowardly IF he can persuade people that Vincent was a danger to Gauguin and/or others. There is not a scintilla of evidence that this was the case. I find it much more in character, much more likely that Vincent was attempting a desperate last-ditch "if you leave I'll kill myself" stunt - and that Gauguin simply told him to bugger off. Gauguin had clearly had enough.

[Henry Flower]

If anyone sees me on this thread again, threaten me with a razor and tell me to let it die. Please.

Please! I can't help myself.....

[Ozzy]

I read a detailed article arguing that though the clever people like to scoff at 'Van Go' and insist it should be pronounced 'Van Choch' - with both CH's pronounced as in 'loch', there is considerable debate actually whether the particular regional dialect would've had the name pronounced as Hoch, Choch, or indeed 'Goch' - the 'o' being quite a bit softer than the English 'o' also.

My personal preference is to settle for 'Vincent Von Google', and anyone who doesn't like it is an elitist buffoon.

I lived in the Netherlands for about 8 years. Long enough to learn the language.
I lived in the North in Amsterdam. For most of that time I knew a Dutch lady from Maastricht in the South.

Rather than Choch I would go more with something like Gckhogckh. That's in the North at least where the g is much more guttural. In the South the g is softer spoken, nearer to the English pronounciation.

[Herlock Sholmes]

However ‘Gogh’ is pronounced it’s definately not pronounced ‘Jack.’

[Henry Flower]

However ‘Gogh’ is pronounced it’s definately not pronounced ‘Jack.’

Back of the net, Herlock! Nice work

[GUT]

However ‘Gogh’ is pronounced it’s definately not pronounced ‘Jack.’

I don’t know

G and J are pronounced the same in some words and gh is a k sound in Dutch

So we’ve got jok, Jock v Jack, not much difference.

Cracked it.

Plus all the hints in paintings etc.

Pity he was in France.

[Mayerling]

I don’t know

G and J are pronounced the same in some words and gh is a k sound in Dutch

So we’ve got jok, Jock v Jack, not much difference.

Cracked it.

Plus all the hints in paintings etc.

Pity he was in France.

Perhaps Vincent and Sickert agreed to trade places and identities for three months, much to Gauguin's annoyance (it is pronounced "Go-gan", isn't it? And Sickert is "Sick-ert"?).

Jeff

[Herlock Sholmes]

I don’t know

G and J are pronounced the same in some words and gh is a k sound in Dutch

So we’ve got jok, Jock v Jack, not much difference.

Cracked it.

Plus all the hints in paintings etc.

Pity he was in France.

Yup, that part’s always going to be a bit of a downer on the theory isn’t it?

Then again, if someone can still write a book proposing Neil Cream even though he was in prison in Chicago the time, there’s still hope.

[martin wilson]

I've only just watched a good documentary about the theft of two Van Gogh paintings presented by the Art Historian Andrew Graham Dixon.
It's difficult to reconcile his obvious love of the man and his work and this dismal huckstering.

[Henry Flower]

"Dismal huckstering"

I salute that witheringly accurate phrase. Beautiful.

[Henry Flower]

Nichols was killed just before 3.40am on the morning of 31st Aug.

On Sept 1st Vincent was definitely at home first thing in the morning:

My dear Theo,

A line in haste to thank you very, very much indeed for the prompt dispatch of your letter. In fact, my chap had already come first thing this morning for his rent. Of course, I had to make my decision known today whether or not I’d keep the house on (because I rented it until Michaelmas, and you have to renew or withdraw beforehand). I told my chap that I’d take it on again for 3 months only, or preferably by the month. That way, supposing that our friend Gauguin arrived, we wouldn’t have a very long lease ahead of us should he not like it.
Far too often I become thoroughly discouraged, thinking about what Gauguin will say about this part of the country in the long run. Isolation here is quite considerable, and while paying, you have to hack each step out of the ice in order just to get from one day’s work to the same the next day. The difficulty about models is there, but patience, and especially always having a few sous, can help there, of course.

The letter as a whole doesn't sound like the work of a man who has been spending time thinking about anything other than what to paint, how to paint, and how to eke out his financial existence while painting. The volume of work he produced would tend to confirm that this was all he cared about, and further, that he just did not waste half his autumn sat on trains and boats traveling between London and the far Mediterranean south of France because there were no prostitutes to kill in France, or because London 'meant something' to him.

Chapman was killed in the early hours of Sept 8th. That day Vincent wrote to Theo from Arles, telling him that he had settled a debt with his landlord, (Ginoux, at the Cafe de la Gare) by spending most of the week painting pictures of the establishment.

The Double Event took place 1.00-1.45 on Sept 30th. There are no letters from Vincent for a day or two, but on Tuesday 2nd he writes to Eugene Boch, giving him a detailed and exhaustive list of the paintings he is currently working on.

Kelly was killed at maybe 4am on Nov 9th. On the 10th Vincent writes to Theo telling him of some cancelled exhibition plans, and describes how he is getting on with Gauguin, who had finally arrived - after months of pleading by Vincent - on Oct 20th. Given the agonies he went through to persuade Gauguin to join him in Arles I find it impossible to believe that Vincent then left him after a couple of weeks and spent a couple of days traveling to London and back to murder a prostitute.

Dale may point out that there is a slight gap in the letters at the time of the Double Event. However, careful study of the letters reveals that this gap is far from unique, there are hundreds of letters, and many gaps of two or more days between them at various points.

Vincent van Gogh did not travel from the Mediterranean all the way up through France, across the Channel, and into London to murder a prostitute, before hopping on the first possible train home again, all the way back to the English coast, onto a ferry, across the Channel, and traveling down through the entire length of France to the Mediterranean town of Arles.

Grow up Dale. The fact that it wasn't physically impossible is literally all the evidence you have.

[Pcdunn]

Bravo to all who have objected to the pointless smearing of an artistic genius with such a silly and ill-considered "theory"!! Let Vincent rest in peace, not among a list of Ripper suspects!!

[GUT]

Hello Dale,

Where I can't say I agree with you or your research, I do admire your tenacity, look, It doesn't matter who the suspect is, you will (as in anyone bringing forth a suspect) always be bashed by the "Ripper Community" so keep your chin up....I have been attacked by folks as a "suspect pusher" because of research and work I have done with others, funny thing is... I never pushed a suspect, in fact I was brought into the project because I was against said suspect.. but never let the truth ruin a good bashing.....

People will say that Van Gogh is a crazy suspect, and mock you...but be proud of the work you have done... however, be careful, sometime we see the truth we want to see more then the truth as it is...always second guess your self and your research, and maybe find someone who is not only a skeptic but opposed to your theory to work with for a while.

I wish you best of luck, and like I said I am 100% against your theory, but I will read the book when it comes out, and maybe you can sway me (not likely, but I'll give it a read). you have put far too many years into this to be discouraged at this point.

Again sir, congrats for getting this far, and good luck!!

Steadmund Brand

Steady

Whilst I would generally agree with the sentiments you express, on this occasion I can’t, given Dales refusal to eve consider the big problems in his hypothesis.

And that’s before I even think about his claims of hints in paintings.