Was it Van Gogh, Carroty Mustache?

[Sam Flynn]

I read a detailed article arguing that though the clever people like to scoff at 'Van Go"

I don't think it's a case of cleverness or scoffing, Henry. Speaking for myself, it's simply a desire for accuracy and a love of other languages.

there is considerable debate actually whether the particular regional dialect would've had the name pronounced as Hoch, Choch, or indeed 'Goch'

Indeed, but it's definitely not "Goff", and "Go" isn't even trying

[Henry Flower]

I'm wondering whether someone has misunderstood the bogus newspaper report which claimed Mary Kelly "had the painters in" on November 9.

Love,

Caz
X

Oh...... Oh Caz.... goodness me....

Anyway, I can't believe Dale is back with his freakshow act once more. Please, all decent men and women of good will - just let this thread die. It got done to death last time. This guy actually thinks Vincent killed on (or around!) important (or semi-important) dates, and went to the trouble of (a) painting 'clues' to the killings into his paintings, and (b) left dead dogs in Kelly's room. It's batsh*t crazy. Please, people. Please.

[Abby Normal]

I don't think it's a case of cleverness or scoffing, Henry. Speaking for myself, it's simply a desire for accuracy and a love of other languages.Indeed, but it's definitely not "Goff", and "Go" isn't even trying

It’s actually pronounced Van Magog

[Henry Flower]

I don't think it's a case of cleverness or scoffing, Henry. Speaking for myself, it's simply a desire for accuracy and a respect for other people's languages.

Yeah, yeah, Gareth, but.... that's how languages calcify and die. Interbreeding is the highest form of respect. So in that spirit, and given that he lived and worked for Goupil in London, I propose -

Vincent van Godge

[Herlock Sholmes]

Like most I’m all for open-minded discussion and debate but when we, yet again, descend into the game of ‘finding someone who was alive at the time then torturing the alleged facts into the creation of a suspect’ I lose interest. What are the chances of someone just choosing a random person who was alive at the time and finding out ‘hey, everything points to his guilt?’ No one has ever mentioned Van Gogh as a suspect (because he wasn’t one), no one has ever connected him to the case (because he wasn’t), no one ever thought that his behaviour was in any way suspicious (because it wasn’t) so why alight on him as a potential Jack? (absolutely no reason at all.)

We get nonesense like this.

“Was V living in London during the Ripper murders? No. Living in Arles, France.
Do the train & steamer schedules show V could be in London in 24 hrs.? Yes.”

Was Van Gogh utterly penniless in Arles? Yes.
Did he rely on his brother Theo just to afford to eat? Yes.
We’re there any prostitutes in France that he could have murdered? Yes.
Is it remotely reasonable to connect VG cutting of a part of his ear and the Ripper cutting off a part of Eddowes’? Of course not.
Was VG dangerously violent? No.
Did VG express any violent hatred of prostitutes? No.
Did VG have any serious obsessions? Yes...painting.
Did VG exhibit any traits that could hint at him being capable of disembowelling a human being? Absolutely not.

Was Vincent a troubled man whose only wish in life was to create beauty through his art? Yes.

Was Vincent Van Gogh Jack The Ripper? Absolutely, categorically, without a shadow of a doubt....no.

This kind of drivel just pollutes the waters

[Henry Flower]

Like most I’m all for open-minded discussion and debate but when we, yet again, descend into the game of ‘finding someone who was alive at the time then torturing the alleged facts into the creation of a suspect’ I lose interest. What are the chances of someone just choosing a random person who was alive at the time and finding out ‘hey, everything points to his guilt?’ No one has ever mentioned Van Gogh as a suspect (because he wasn’t one), no one has ever connected him to the case (because he wasn’t), no one ever thought that his behaviour was in any way suspicious (because it wasn’t) so why alight on him as a potential Jack? (absolutely no reason at all.)

We get nonesense like this.

“Was V living in London during the Ripper murders? No. Living in Arles, France.
Do the train & steamer schedules show V could be in London in 24 hrs.? Yes.”

Was Van Gogh utterly penniless in Arles? Yes.
Did he rely on his brother Theo just to afford to eat? Yes.
We’re there any prostitutes in France that he could have murdered? Yes.
Is it remotely reasonable to connect VG cutting of a part of his ear and the Ripper cutting off a part of Eddowes’? Of course not.
Was VG dangerously violent? No.
Did VG express any violent hatred of prostitutes? No.
Did VG have any serious obsessions? Yes...painting.
Did VG exhibit any traits that could hint at him being capable of disembowelling a human being? Absolutely not.

Was Vincent a troubled man whose only wish in life was to create beauty through his art? Yes.

Was Vincent Van Gogh Jack The Ripper? Absolutely, categorically, without a shadow of a doubt....no.

This kind of drivel just pollutes the waters

Herlock I couldn't agree more.

One thing to note - the recently discovered medical notes show that in fact Vincent did slice off almost his entire outer ear, leaving only a small stump of the lobe attached. Ouch.

The notes also state that he handed his ear to a cleaning lady, not to a prostitute.

[Henry Flower]

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[Henry Flower]

Damn, and there I was asking sensible people to let this thread die. Sorry folks. Hypocrisy admission. I find it hard to leave alone - I adore this human being, I say without sentimentality that he is a hero, a truly heroic figure, and Dale's imbecilic slurs on his character are just sad, degenerate, and entirely without foundation.

[Steadmund Brand]

Hello Dale,

Where I can't say I agree with you or your research, I do admire your tenacity, look, It doesn't matter who the suspect is, you will (as in anyone bringing forth a suspect) always be bashed by the "Ripper Community" so keep your chin up....I have been attacked by folks as a "suspect pusher" because of research and work I have done with others, funny thing is... I never pushed a suspect, in fact I was brought into the project because I was against said suspect.. but never let the truth ruin a good bashing.....

People will say that Van Gogh is a crazy suspect, and mock you...but be proud of the work you have done... however, be careful, sometime we see the truth we want to see more then the truth as it is...always second guess your self and your research, and maybe find someone who is not only a skeptic but opposed to your theory to work with for a while.

I wish you best of luck, and like I said I am 100% against your theory, but I will read the book when it comes out, and maybe you can sway me (not likely, but I'll give it a read). you have put far too many years into this to be discouraged at this point.

Again sir, congrats for getting this far, and good luck!!

Steadmund Brand

[Steadmund Brand]

Damn, and there I was asking sensible people to let this thread die. Sorry folks. Hypocrisy admission. I find it hard to leave alone - I adore this human being, I say without sentimentality that he is a hero, a truly heroic figure, and Dale's imbecilic slurs on his character are just sad, degenerate, and entirely without foundation.

Hello Henry,

I understand where you come from, and sympathize, however, Dale does have the right to pursue his research, and you have the right to criticize, what would be great is if we could get the two of you on a podcast to debate the theory...I may be starting one soon.. and if so...might make for a good show.....

Steadmund Brand

[Herlock Sholmes]

Damn, and there I was asking sensible people to let this thread die. Sorry folks. Hypocrisy admission. I find it hard to leave alone - I adore this human being, I say without sentimentality that he is a hero, a truly heroic figure, and Dale's imbecilic slurs on his character are just sad, degenerate, and entirely without foundation.

Couldn’t agree more Henry The only person that he was a danger to was himself. This is nothing more than a totally cynical, foundationless character assassination!

[Sam Flynn]

Yeah, yeah, Gareth, but.... that's how languages calcify and die. Interbreeding is the highest form of respect.

Quite, so why not ADD the voiceless velar fricative to one's own phonemic arsenal, instead of chickening out with a "Goff" or a "Go"?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Was Vincent van Gogh famous during his life? No. Loner.

Why raise this? It’s utterly irrelevant.

Did Vincent ever live in London? Yes.

Along with around 3 million other men.

Did V write of visiting the Whitechapel district? Yes.

But have we any proof that he actually did?

Did Vincent have difficulties with women? Oh, yes.

But did was he violent toward them or display any hatred of them?.....No


Did Vincent visit brothels regularly? Yes, all his adult life.

Means nothing. He wasn’t good at ‘relationships.’ He had normal sexual appetites. Many men visited (and still visit) prostitutes.

Did Vincent carry a knife? Yes.

That seals it. I’ve never heard of another man carrying a knife!

Did Vincent cut off his ear in Dec. 1888? Yes.

Utterly irrelevant.

Did the Dear Boss Ripper letter threaten to cut off lady’s ears in Sept. 1888? Yes.

So? Most ripperlogists/experts/writers and senior policeman at the time believe that the letter wasn’t written by Jack.

Did any Ripper victims have their ears cut in 1888? Yes.

Again, irrelevant.

Did Van Gogh give his ear to a prostitute? Yes.

So what? Did Jack ever give his ear to a prostitute? With points like this you might as well say ‘did Jack have legs?’ ‘Well, so did Vincent!’


Did Vincent attempt to attack Gauguin with a razor before he cut off his ear? Yes.

He made a half-hearted attack on Gaugin because he was leaving. No connection whatsoever to the Ripper Murders.

Did V have a job? No.

Yes, he was a painter. A brilliant one. He just never got paid for it. He spent far more time painting and thinking about painting than any accountant or builder did doing and thinking about their jobs.

Was V accountable to anyone? Yes, but only his brother through letter writing.

His one obsession was painting. He couldn’t live without it. Would he have risked not being able to paint?

Was V living in London during the Ripper murders? No. Living in Arles, France.

Therefore he was completely innocent.

Do the train & steamer schedules show V could be in London in 24 hrs.? Yes.

As I’ve already pointed out he was utterly penniless. There’s also no mention of any missing periods in Arles. He was well known locally. No one mentions him disappearing for two or three months.

Does the general public know the details of Van Gogh’s life? No, minimal.

So? I’d say that the general public know next to nothing about the life of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle but we know that he too wasn’t the ripper.

Is there much info available about V’s daily life in 1888? Yes, lots.

And none of it shows that he nipped over to England for three months to do a bit of disembowelling.

Did Jack the Ripper like to make little drawings on his letters? Yes.

No. Because, as I said early, the overwhelming likelihood is that none of those letters were written by the Ripper.

Did Vincent? Yes.

Irrelevant. See above.


Did Vincent argue continuously with his preacher father? Yes.

Of course no normal person has ever argued with their father.


Did Vincent threaten to kill his father? Yes.

How many people in the history of civilisation have said, in the heat of an argument, ‘I’ll kill you,’ or ‘I’ll kill him?’ It means nothing. Did Van Gogh ever threaten to kill women/prostitutes? No


Was V’s father found dead on his doorstep while V lived there, after moving back home? Yes.

?? How can this be linked to Vincent? Unless he was magically able to induce a stroke??


Was the universally accepted description of the Ripper having dark hair based on direct eyewitness of the murderer? No.

Descriptions vary. We can’t possibly know exactly what Jack looked like.


Did description given by Mrs. Fiddymont and friends match to Vincent? Eerily so.

If I recall correctly Mrs Fiddymont described a wild looking person with blood on his hands. No connection to Vincent. Nothing eerie about it.


Did they see the man in the pub not long after the Chapman murder? Yes.

So?

Was Van Gogh an alcoholic? Yes.

Heavy drinking doesn’t equate to Vincent being a murderer. Why mention it?


Did Mr. Taylor say the man had a ginger mustache & sandy hair? Yes.

So it MUST have been Vincent! Oh wait a minute, he was in Arles...damn!


Did Vincent have ginger facial hair and sandy hair? Yes.

The swine!

Did Mary Cox see a man with a carroty mustache in Mary Kelly’s room on the night of her murder? Yes.

It doesn’t mean that he was the Ripper though.

Did Cox also describe the man as having a blotchy face? Yes.

Correct.

Did Vincent have a blotchy face? Yes.

Case closed then. It must have been him!


So many questions.

So many questions.... largely irrelevant ones created by you so that you can add another ‘yes’ to you’re list.

[Henry Flower]

Quite, so why not ADD the voiceless velar fricative to one's own phonemic arsenal, instead of chickening out with a "Goff" or a "Go"?

Hey, you're picking on the wrong guy! I don't call him a Goff or a Go.

He liked his wine, so I call him Vincent Vin-Goggles

[Abby Normal]

Hello Dale,

Where I can't say I agree with you or your research, I do admire your tenacity, look, It doesn't matter who the suspect is, you will (as in anyone bringing forth a suspect) always be bashed by the "Ripper Community" so keep your chin up....I have been attacked by folks as a "suspect pusher" because of research and work I have done with others, funny thing is... I never pushed a suspect, in fact I was brought into the project because I was against said suspect.. but never let the truth ruin a good bashing.....

People will say that Van Gogh is a crazy suspect, and mock you...but be proud of the work you have done... however, be careful, sometime we see the truth we want to see more then the truth as it is...always second guess your self and your research, and maybe find someone who is not only a skeptic but opposed to your theory to work with for a while.

I wish you best of luck, and like I said I am 100% against your theory, but I will read the book when it comes out, and maybe you can sway me (not likely, but I'll give it a read). you have put far too many years into this to be discouraged at this point.

Again sir, congrats for getting this far, and good luck!!

Steadmund Brand

wow stead
your a better man than me. Of course your right, but IMHO regardless that its another crackpot famous guy suspect, if you cant even place your suspect in London at the time of the murders its really, and should be, a non starter.