EU Vote

[caz]

Of course, it isn't far from banning to suggest that old people should be entitled to vote, but that if they vote the 'wrong' way then they have swallowed lies, they don't understand the issues, they're not even intelligent or educated enough to understand the issues, they're racist xenophobic selfish bigots.

It's very far from 'banning', Robert, as are the insulting opinions thrown in the opposite direction. Free speech and all that. If you are one of those who voted to leave (and won, because there were no spooks trying to fix it after all), and you know you didn't swallow any lies; you did understand the issues and are intelligent and educated enough to do so; and you know you are not a racist xenophobic selfish bigot, then you need not fret on behalf of anyone who does fall into one or more of those categories, and you certainly needn't empathise or stick up for them. If none of the accusations apply to you, you have nothing to defend yourself against.

Your mother-in-law made a judgement on behalf of her grandchildren, which she has every right to do. I'm going to let you into a secret here, Caz : some of the Leavers did the same thing, and came to a different conclusion.

Oh yes, and I'm not saying she was right (who really knows yet?), but she did know beforehand what her grandson's wishes were, and voted accordingly, so it wasn't a judgement as such, made from assumption or prejudice. She said that either result was going to affect him far more than it could possibly affect her, and she also respects what she believes are his more qualified opinions on the matter, as he has just earned himself a first class degree in sociology.

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

Hi Caz

What an odd response. I am not defending myself any more than I am attacking you. But I am defending people who voted, apparently, the 'wrong' way. Yes you can have free speech - I'm all for it - but to see the kind of people who daily parade their tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness and egalitarianism using language like this frankly makes me want to puke.

As for people knowing that they're right, well that's the trouble with democracy - very few people do (except for Guardian readers). Maybe we'd better cancel general elections and let Charlotte Church decide.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Phil,

Of course, that would still not be nearly enough to placate all the selfish old gits (sorry, selfless lovely people) who voted out so the next generation could experience the "good old days" of slave trading and sending small boys up chimneys.

There we are, some more light hearted fun for everyone.

Love,

Caz
X

'Selfish old gits'?

I'm 42; my Mam is 75.

My Mam voted Leave. She voted Leave because: 'exports and imports', 'the economy', a few bankers in 'the city'; is simply not her concern and why would it be? She couldn't give a shite about any of these things; she doesn't know anything about them nor cares or wants to know. But she is a Labour voting conservative with a small c. She loves the countryside, nature, that sort of thing.

She's very charitable and certainly not racist. But she sees England's green land being eroded and primarily voted out of a concern for the countryside. The 'global economy' includes movement of labour and she instinctively bristles when she hears such a term. I don't agree with her on this issue. While also a nature lover, I believe that the migration of labour is a fact of life that has been going on for centuries.

I voted Leave because it's a ******* scam. These people take money from ordinary people and pay themselves a small fortune and hand the rest out to 'the arts' and the like - buying people's support. It is completely anti-democratic and rides rough-shod over our sovereignty. Moreover, I don't like their values.

My Sister voted Remain. Her primary reason is that she's a midwife and felt the NHS would be better served by the EU.

So, we all had our reasons; we all had a certain amount of self-interest.

But, ultimately, these people are mental. Absolutely round the bend. No one knows how they got into a position of power, nor what they're being paid to do except draw up **** loads of regulations. And, it's all deliberate. It is a geopolitical case of: "bullshit baffles brains". They don't want you to know how it works because that way they can maintain the gravy train.

I would argue the opposite in terms of who is selfish.

[Geddy2112]

If you happen to have 70 mins spare I suggest you watch 'BREXIT The Movie' (Google is your friend) it's how can I say it... very enlightening.

[Svensson]

Actually, I only got as far as that lady saying that "the EU was devised to ensure that the great mass of people could not control government". (which was after about 2 minutes)

How long until they mentioned FEMA-camps..?

[Elamarna]

'Selfish old gits'?


I voted Leave because it's a ******* scam. These people take money from ordinary people and pay themselves a small fortune and hand the rest out to 'the arts' and the like - buying people's support. It is completely anti-democratic and rides rough-shod over our sovereignty. Moreover, I don't like their values.

I am so sorry to say this but the above displays a lack of knowledge that is astounding.

How do they take money from "ordinary people" more than anyone else?

By the way who are "ordinary people"?

Despite the fact that the comment about giving it to "the arts" is wrong, that comment says so much more about your attitude than anything else.

And I am sorry this nonsense, and it is nonsense, about not being anti-democratic is so wrong.
There are elections to Europe(the parliament) that is served by the bureaucrats who are employed by the EU.
The same as the British parliament and its civil servants.

So far the only, and I mean only, result to affect ordinary people is the continuing fall in the pound, so fuel is and will go up, energy prices will follow, and the price of goods too.

Now of course overtime it will adjust, but who pays while it does?

The "ordinary people" that's who!

While there certainly are faults with the EU, people on the whole did not argue on those issues, but on emotive issues, which it now appears having won, they have no idea how to address.

So after being born here and having voted in every election since 1979, when I was first allowed to, I find that half of my country are small minded and insular.
However that was the outcome of the vote, so I have 2 choices, live with it or leave, as it appears to argue against it and fight is deemed to be an affront to democracy, which it is not!

Therefore to all those who voted leave, I will be leaving these shores before the end of the year, having no wish to remain in such a country.

And Shall not be going to Europe, but somewhere tropical.

And of course will still be here on the forums

Steve

[caz]

Hi Caz

What an odd response. I am not defending myself any more than I am attacking you. But I am defending people who voted, apparently, the 'wrong' way. Yes you can have free speech - I'm all for it - but to see the kind of people who daily parade their tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness and egalitarianism using language like this frankly makes me want to puke.

As for people knowing that they're right, well that's the trouble with democracy - very few people do (except for Guardian readers). Maybe we'd better cancel general elections and let Charlotte Church decide.

An equally odd - and irrelevant - response, Robert, if I may say so. Why take offence when it is suggested that racist xenophobic bigots were more likely to have voted out than in? The Daily Mail headlines certainly 'paraded' that much daily and unashamedly in the hope of recruiting as many of them as possible to the 'leave' cause. But I sincerely trust such people are in a tiny minority, and do not make up anything like the 50 plus percent who voted to leave. We all know they exist and we all know which way they were likely to vote. In the same way, only a tiny minority of remain voters will have been 'daily parading' the tolerance (how I hate that word), diversity, inclusiveness and egalitarianism that so sickens you.

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

Well we will have to agree to disagree, Caz.

[caz]

'Selfish old gits'?

I'm 42; my Mam is 75.

My Mam voted Leave. She voted Leave because: 'exports and imports', 'the economy', a few bankers in 'the city'; is simply not her concern and why would it be? She couldn't give a shite about any of these things; she doesn't know anything about them nor cares or wants to know. But she is a Labour voting conservative with a small c. She loves the countryside, nature, that sort of thing.

She's very charitable and certainly not racist. But she sees England's green land being eroded and primarily voted out of a concern for the countryside. The 'global economy' includes movement of labour and she instinctively bristles when she hears such a term. I don't agree with her on this issue. While also a nature lover, I believe that the migration of labour is a fact of life that has been going on for centuries.

I voted Leave because it's a ******* scam. These people take money from ordinary people and pay themselves a small fortune and hand the rest out to 'the arts' and the like - buying people's support. It is completely anti-democratic and rides rough-shod over our sovereignty. Moreover, I don't like their values.

My Sister voted Remain. Her primary reason is that she's a midwife and felt the NHS would be better served by the EU.

So, we all had our reasons; we all had a certain amount of self-interest.

But, ultimately, these people are mental. Absolutely round the bend. No one knows how they got into a position of power, nor what they're being paid to do except draw up **** loads of regulations. And, it's all deliberate. It is a geopolitical case of: "bullshit baffles brains". They don't want you to know how it works because that way they can maintain the gravy train.

I would argue the opposite in terms of who is selfish.

Calm down, FM, calm down. You won.

Did I say that everyone who voted to leave was a selfish old git? No, I don't think I did. As many on the leave side as the remain side no doubt thought long and hard about what might be better for the country as a whole and the generation who will be living with the consequences. As many on each side no doubt voted for what they wanted - or didn't want - for themselves. And as many on each side no doubt voted from gut instinct, without a coherent thought in their head.

If you concede there are some selfish old gits around (and I've seen a few in news bulletins), who voted either way for what they thought was best for them, and bugger everyone else, then that is what I have a problem with. My response to Phil was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, as his own post was. I didn't think anyone would take my references to the slave trade and small boys being sent up chimneys at face value. And I'm quite sure the cap wouldn't fit anyone here, so no need to wear it.

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

Memo to the Greeks : please note that the EU has taken nothing from you. In fact, your membership of the EU and its associated Euro currency has been a magnificent success. It may seem to you that your country is bankrupt, but this is a sheer mistake. We hope you appreciate how lucky you are to be part of the EU, and pray for its leaders nightly.

[caz]

Well we will have to agree to disagree, Caz.

Hi Robert,

Now I'm a bit confused. What was there to disagree with in my last post to you? I'm sure an equal number of perfectly decent, intelligent and selfless people voted on either side, and I hope you would agree with that. But which way do you suppose the tiny minority of racist xenophobic bigots would have voted? Or don't you believe such people exist in this country?

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

Caz, I know that you are not throwing this crap around - I said at the start that I hadn't seen this kind of thing on Casebook.

However, now I find that Steve thinks that half of the country are small-minded and insular.

Doesn't take long, does it?

[caz]

I am so sorry to say this but the above displays a lack of knowledge that is astounding.

How do they take money from "ordinary people" more than anyone else?

By the way who are "ordinary people"?

Despite the fact that the comment about giving it to "the arts" is wrong, that comment says so much more about your attitude than anything else.

And I am sorry this nonsense, and it is nonsense, about not being anti-democratic is so wrong.
There are elections to Europe(the parliament) that is served by the bureaucrats who are employed by the EU.
The same as the British parliament and its civil servants.

So far the only, and I mean only, result to affect ordinary people is the continuing fall in the pound, so fuel is and will go up, energy prices will follow, and the price of goods too.

Now of course overtime it will adjust, but who pays while it does?

The "ordinary people" that's who!

While there certainly are faults with the EU, people on the whole did not argue on those issues, but on emotive issues, which it now appears having won, they have no idea how to address.

So after being born here and having voted in every election since 1979, when I was first allowed to, I find that half of my country are small minded and insular.
However that was the outcome of the vote, so I have 2 choices, live with it or leave, as it appears to argue against it and fight is deemed to be an affront to democracy, which it is not!

Therefore to all those who voted leave, I will be leaving these shores before the end of the year, having no wish to remain in such a country.

And Shall not be going to Europe, but somewhere tropical.

And of course will still be here on the forums

Steve

I wish you well, Steve, wherever you decide to live. My brother, a lifelong Londoner, is thinking he may up sticks and move to Thailand.

Me, I wouldn't mind France, seeing the wonderful Tour de France and all that beautiful scenery. But when that's over I'll no doubt fall back in love with Devon, where I am now. One of the regulars at our local boozer was very vocal about his 'leave' vote, and is now off to Spain for two weeks - presumably to make the most of the English pubs and fish and chip shops there before all the prices go up!

Love,

Caz
X

[Svensson]

And Shall not be going to Europe, but somewhere tropical.

[Svensson]

Btw, I'm not leaving, not because of the result on its own anyways. Unless of course the childcare costs and schooling just becomes too much to afford...

So let's see what happens, right?