EU Vote

[Robert]

If Murdoch is backing Gove, he has a funny way of showing it. Thanks to the 'stab in the back,' Gove's stock is on the way down.

[Wickerman]

Perhaps, Jon. But of course there is no such thing as EU money. The EU is financed by the countries that compose it. The UK is a net contributor, so we're only getting back some of what we put in.

If Scotland were to be in the EU as a state in its own right, I imagine it would be a net receiver.

Well yes Robert, but we can say the same for Government money, they don't have any money either, they just (mis)manage our money.
Many of us get some of our taxes back but that doesn't stop us complaining about paying taxes.

To your earlier point about Scotland I do agree about nations being independent, but I hope this does not trigger the old troubles in Northern Ireland again as some have speculated, I know they voted to Remain like Scotland.

[Robert]

Yes Jon, Northern Ireland voted to remain, and what's more they voted to stay in the Common Market in 1975. I am totally at a loss to explain their decisions.

[Limehouse]

Julie, as a pensioner I am appreciative of having an annual rise of 2.5% in state pension, way above the current inflation rate. I am also appreciative that Osborne has abolished tax on savings interest. Maybe I'm being slightly self-centered here, but that's life. Cameron is also a supporter of Aston Villa (or was, as I was until they got relegated last season).

I take issue with your statement that the public took the referendum deadly seriously - there was a bimbo on the box the day after the referendum who said, when asked why she voted Brexit, that 'she didn't really know, but I just did'. Sadly, she was not the only one. One week after the referendum, I have yet to find anyone who voted Brexit to actually admit that he or she considered the possible consequences. Frightening, really, but sorry to say a sad reflection of the times we live in.

Corbyn, let's be honest, ain't up to it, Julie. He may be a nice bloke with a horrible beard, but he is not 'leader of a major political party' material. Neither was Milliband. As a non-Labour voter, I actually had a good deal of respect and admiration for Neil Kinnock, and remain surprised that he didn't do better at the 1992 General Election (I can forgive him his triumphalism at Sheffield...) - until then, he was amazingly the longest-serving Leader Of The Opposition in British political history. He'd have had Jeremiah for breakfast with an egg and a fried tomato. Anyway, come this time next week, New Old Labour will have another leader who the members of the party can pour scorn on.

Graham

Hi Graham,

Personally, I would not begrudge you a single penny of your pension or your annual pension rise as you have probably paid in at least one third of your earnings for the whole of your working life. I myself now pay only a fraction of my earnings in tax and National Insurance compared to what I was paying thirty years ago. However, I do have to work an additional six years on top of my expected pension age of 60 thanks to successive governments (Labour and Tory) raising the pension age. It's swings and roundabouts.

I have, like you, heard stories of people voting 'leave' for what seems like ridiculous reasons but, I still feel the majority of people took the referendum seriously, even if they were kept criminally short of real, impartial information about the true consequences of staying or leaving.

As for JC, do not under estimate his popularity with the electorate. Here are just some of the reasons why I think he is an excellent leader:

1. Since his nomination to leadership less than one year ago, Labour has won every bi-election it participated in.
2. Labour has also seen the election of 4 Labour City Mayors, including London and Liverpool.
3. Polls show that Corbyn has overwhelming support of the membership of the Party, if not the Parliamentary Labour Party. Additionally, he is popular with the electorate, the polls consistently showing him ahead of the Tories.
4. Corbyn has been an MP for 32 years and before that a Labour Councillor. In all that time he has had one of the lowest expense claims and is known to be one of the hardest working for his constituents.

It is a great pity that a schism has arisen within the Party just when they could be giving the Tories a run for their money and wining. In my opinion, the media has given Corbyn a very tough ride and, just as within the Tory Party right now, a few politicians with their eye on the prize are making mischief.

Respect, as always

Julie

[Limehouse]

Hi Jon

Blame doesn't come into it. I believe that nations should be independent. If the Scots think they're a nation, then they should be independent. The only thing that baffles me is, why on earth would the Scots want their independence and yet want to be part of the EU. There seems to be something about the word 'independence' that they can't quite grasp.

I agree entirely Robert, and what is more, a later post of yours could explain why Scotland is so keen to remain in Europe. They would be net receivers!

[Robert]

Could be, Julie.

The Scots might be able to dodge having to queue up behind the other applicants, but I'm not sure they can dodge joining the Euro currency.

[Aldebaran]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=JFt-pRIvL9E

This man usually tells it like it is.

[Robert]

We got a great result. But the Remainers are trying every trick in the book - and a few outside it - to get the vote overturned. Such is the nature of fascism.

[Svensson]

"Fascism"? Whoah!! Especially coming from the Leave camp?

But apart from that, no, there shouldn't be a second referendum, no matter what Nigel Farrage says This of course does not stop some people from talking about it but it won't happen. The fact that the referendum was based on largely incorrect information is one I had bemoaned long before the result but instead, we would need to make sure lessons will be learned from that.

Btw, as with others who chose to play Cricket the day after being suspected of heinous crimes, do we know what Boris Johnson's score was?

[Robert]

Svensson, I don't know his score, but it seems that Gove got one to turn in an almost supernatural way and that was the end of his innings.

[Svensson]

Found it:

ABP Johnson c&b Gove 0 (0) SR 0.00

[Fleetwood Mac]

"Fascism"? Whoah!! Especially coming from the Leave camp?

But apart from that, no, there shouldn't be a second referendum, no matter what Nigel Farrage says This of course does not stop some people from talking about it but it won't happen. The fact that the referendum was based on largely incorrect information is one I had bemoaned long before the result but instead, we would need to make sure lessons will be learned from that.

Btw, as with others who chose to play Cricket the day after being suspected of heinous crimes, do we know what Boris Johnson's score was?

You'll find that the EU is anti-democratic.

The absolute cornerstone of democracy is the ability to have a say in who taxes us what the money is spent on. If we don't like it, we remove them.

We can't remove the unelected bureaucrats in Europe because none of us have voted for them. No one knows who they are and what they do, and they pay themselves a small fortune, to the point where they even have an allowance for turning up. I mean, paying themselves extra on top of a huge salary just for being bothered to turn up and do their unelected jobs. Are these people ****in' serious?!

It is an absolute scam. A gravy train.

There is nothing 'fascist' about the Leave vote. Those brainwashed of course would say that.

Europeans want them because that is their history. They have always believed that a few 'experts' should dictate to millions. We on the other hand, have a different history. Magna Carta, Bill of Rights etc, and what this vote was about at least in part was a complete divergence in the history and culture of the English versus the Europeans.

They're simply taking money from the general population and paying themselves handsomely and handing the rest out to people who are happy to be part of the system in return for being treated favourablly. As ever with things, it is to the detriment of the average man/woman on the street.

But, you Europeans wouldn't understand that because as I say, you've always believed in a society ordered in a fashion that means a few so-called experts have free reign and are largely unaccountable.

[Pcdunn]

Heard today that Britons abroad on the Comtinent are being deported back to the U.K. Any idea if this is true?

[Robert]

Not true, Pat.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Heard today that Britons abroad on the Comtinent are being deported back to the U.K. Any idea if this is true?

I would be extremely surprised. Even they wouldn't do that.