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  • moste
    replied
    Black hair, dark hair dark brown hair. Dark eyes icy blue eyes, all disperses into insignificance when we have a nice long look at Storie’s photofit image . So desperately wanting this maniac caught, she would have been at great pains to get this image just right. Even down to the ,what was it ? E.17 of the eye choices , anyway the one she was happy with, which was ‘dark’.The whole ‘let’s do an identikit thing ‘was a disaster, because Storie had not got a clue what the assailant looked like.Incidently, could someone remind me, was the jury invited to look at Stories picture? because in essence, had they been, and Sherrard had done what was obviously the thing to do, and have Michael Clark summoned to court for the jury to be introduced to , Hanratty could be 84 now.

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  • moste
    replied
    Originally posted by Alfie View Post

    A poster, Stewart P Evans, wrote some time ago: "... an old friend of mine was a detective who assisted on the case in the original investigation and he tells of how evidence that Hanratty had perverted sexual tastes was found at the time but could not be used."

    I've wondered since whether the folder Hanratty entrusted to Slack might have contained the "material" Evans referred to which "revealed that Hanratty was highly sexed in a perverted way" -- material that Hanratty may have been loathe to bring into the family home.
    Hi Alfie , Graham invited me to refer to your post here , for clarification re- ‘the folder given to slack for safe keeping.’ I can well see Hanratty leaving a folder with Slack prior to heading to Strangeways, and likely collect it again on his release. Would it not be more reasonable to consider Since Slack was Hanratty’s fence, that the folder would contain a diary of events, pertaining to burglaries? Maybe a couple of dozen addresses of homes where only one or a couple of elderly people lived ? that type of information ,rather than a wad of dirty books.That would be my guess.

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  • moste
    replied
    Ok. I see , not casting aspersions on Hanratty then In any way ,just a bit of banter re his fun loving ‘ nice to be with’ kind of guy. Fair enough

    With regards to Storie’s identification of the killers voice. Last Premiership season my missus was putting the tele on to watch a game live .I was upstairs but could hear the pundits discussing the upcoming match. I called down “ who else is chatting on the panel besides Tim Sherwood” she called back “ It isn’t Tim Sherwood, It’s Alan Curbishley.” I went down and true enough I was wrong. Now I’m sure everyone knows where I’m going with this. I think I have listened to a very great many more male cockney voices than Storie ever did.
    That Identification of Hanratty ,by having him say the line ‘be quiet will you I’m finking’ , to bolster her completely faded memory of the slight glimpse she caught of the attacker, is to my way of thinking, an absolute farce!

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  • Graham
    replied
    Moste, may I respectfully suggest that you read my post again, because I think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. The three girl-friends named in the literature all had sex with Hanratty, yet all three of them commented that he treated them in a kind and gentlemanly fashion. No mention from any of them of 'perversion'.

    With regards to the folder he handed to Slack for 'safe-keeping', refer to Alfie's Post 6193.

    Graham

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  • moste
    replied
    QUOTE: There's little doubt in my mind that Hanratty was a highly-sexed individual, yet his girl-friends, and the prostitutes he regularly used, seemed to have no complaints. (Although in 1961 a 'sex worker' could be charged under some Act or the other, I believe).

    Hi Graham. When I was 25 I too was a highly-sexed individual, my girl friends and eventually my wife had no complaints either, ( I never had any use for prostitutes) 6 children, grandchildren , and 50 years on , and I’m a very happy camper. I didn’t catch the significance of your last paragraph.
    I hope this wasn’t an attempt to connect Valerie Storie’s traumatic experience with the luckless Jimmy.
    As with your post Alfie, having sexually perverted taste , has little to do with rape. As I believe Limehouse pointed out way back.

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  • Graham
    replied
    I do recall that post, from a long time ago. According to Woffo, the folder contained 'photographs, letters and other mementoes of great sentimental value'. Hanratty handed it to Slack the day he was released from prison in March. Had he kept it with him in prison, I wonder? If so, surely the authorities would have looked at the contents? But it must have meant something to him for him to give it Slack the day he was released. I think it's a valid question to ask, regarding the 'material' in the folder, and it must have meant a lot to Hanratty to give it to Slack for safe-keeping when he did. And why Slack? And why did Slack see fit to hand it over to Acott, who I suggest couldn't have known about it beforehand?

    There's little doubt in my mind that Hanratty was a highly-sexed individual, yet his girl-friends, and the prostitutes he regularly used, seemed to have no complaints. (Although in 1961 a 'sex worker' could be charged under some Act or the other, I believe).

    All very perplexing.

    Graham

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  • Alfie
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham View Post
    I suspect not, Nick! I would also suspect that, had Hanratty been cleared, Dangerous Donald may well have wanted a 'word' with him. Maybe that's why he handed over to Acott that mysterious file of 'personal information', the contents of which have never been released. And I wonder why Hanratty gave it to Slack in the first place. Another little A6 mystery.

    Graham
    A poster, Stewart P Evans, wrote some time ago: "... an old friend of mine was a detective who assisted on the case in the original investigation and he tells of how evidence that Hanratty had perverted sexual tastes was found at the time but could not be used."

    I've wondered since whether the folder Hanratty entrusted to Slack might have contained the "material" Evans referred to which "revealed that Hanratty was highly sexed in a perverted way" -- material that Hanratty may have been loathe to bring into the family home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alfie
    replied
    Originally posted by NickB View Post
    But Dr Rennie's description of Michael Clarke was different: fairish hair and bluish eyes.

    With regard to Acott and Rennie, people on both sides tend to pick the eye colour of one and hair colour of the other to support their case!

    On more than one occasion Sherrard cited Rennie's "fairish hair" description as a reason to distrust Valerie's hair description, and Woffinden tracked down a relation who described his hair as mousey. If you recall we were wondering why Woffinden did not report what the relation said was his eye colour, as Woff must have asked her.
    Rennie at the trial was relying on his memory, Acott on notes he made at the time of the parade. Sherrard and Acott had this exchange: "Would you tell us first of all whether he was, as Dr Rennie has told us, a fair-haired man?" "No. He was not. He had dark, short-cropped hair."

    That said, Acott's notes also contradicted Rennie on eye-colour. He'd put them down as dark.

    For what it's worth, OneRound, I don't think Valerie was entirely reliable as a witness, either. But I believe she was honest and accurate when it came to hair and eye colour. As Gwen Woodin later said,, "She never changed her mind about the description in any shape or form. 'Eyes were blue, cold.' That's how she described them ..."

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  • Graham
    replied
    I suspect not, Nick! I would also suspect that, had Hanratty been cleared, Dangerous Donald may well have wanted a 'word' with him. Maybe that's why he handed over to Acott that mysterious file of 'personal information', the contents of which have never been released. And I wonder why Hanratty gave it to Slack in the first place. Another little A6 mystery.

    Graham

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  • NickB
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham View Post
    It seems that Slack was a tough bunny, and able to resist whatever Acott threw at him.
    Graham
    Hanratty had told Acott about Slack's fencing in some detail. "I have made over a thousand pounds in the last two months. I stick to jewellery and keep to one fence, who always pays me 30% for my gear." I doubt Slack was very impressed with that.

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  • OneRound
    replied
    Originally posted by Alfie View Post

    According to the notes Acott made at the time, he had "dark short cropped hair".
    Alfie - thank you (and to you as well, Nick) for that information although the main point of my last post was to highlight the unreliability of Valerie Storie as a witness. For the avoidance of doubt and as stated previously, I do not doubt her integrity.

    Best regards,
    OneRound

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  • NickB
    replied
    But Dr Rennie's description of Michael Clarke was different: fairish hair and bluish eyes.

    With regard to Acott and Rennie, people on both sides tend to pick the eye colour of one and hair colour of the other to support their case!

    On more than one occasion Sherrard cited Rennie's "fairish hair" description as a reason to distrust Valerie's hair description, and Woffinden tracked down a relation who described his hair as mousey. If you recall we were wondering why Woffinden did not report what the relation said was his eye colour, as Woff must have asked her.

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  • Alfie
    replied
    Originally posted by OneRound View Post

    Alfie - please remind me, what was Michael Clarke's hair colour?

    Best regards,
    OneRound
    According to the notes Acott made at the time, he had "dark short cropped hair".

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  • OneRound
    replied
    Originally posted by Alfie View Post

    Kerr initially thought Valerie told him her name was Mary.

    Superintendent Morgan of Biggleswade described the gunman's hair colour as "dark brown", yet the dailies' description ranged from black to dark, to dark-brown. And their description of the man varied in more respects than just hair-colour, which suggests to me that there was more than one police source for their information. The colour of his suit, for instance, was variously described as dark, dark-grey, brown and dark-brown. One even has him wearing a lounge suit.

    The common feature regarding his hair colour, though, was that it was dark.
    Alfie - please remind me, what was Michael Clarke's hair colour?

    Best regards,
    OneRound

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  • Alfie
    replied
    Originally posted by OneRound View Post

    Kerr has always come across to me as an impressive witness ... I would assume the various newspapers got their description of the gunman's hair colour from the same police briefing and we know what a horlicks they made of his eye colour.
    Kerr initially thought Valerie told him her name was Mary.

    Superintendent Morgan of Biggleswade described the gunman's hair colour as "dark brown", yet the dailies' description ranged from black to dark, to dark-brown. And their description of the man varied in more respects than just hair-colour, which suggests to me that there was more than one police source for their information. The colour of his suit, for instance, was variously described as dark, dark-grey, brown and dark-brown. One even has him wearing a lounge suit.

    The common feature regarding his hair colour, though, was that it was dark.

    Leave a comment:

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