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  • Originally posted by Graham View Post
    Natalie,

    I'd like to see the transcripts of the alterations as claimed, so perhaps you'd be kind enough to post them on here?

    Thanks,

    Graham
    I believe they are on here Graham already so I would need to search them out .I photographed them and posted them about 18 months ago . But I was asked to return the originals to their owner so don't have the transparencies to hand.
    Norma

    Comment


    • Originally posted by caz View Post
      Hi Nats,

      Did any of these people come forward then? Or was this another unsupported claim by Hanratty? Tarleton Street is right in the centre of the city, so don't you find it a little odd that Hanratty had to ask 'several local people', none of whom could help him, and was finally sent off in the wrong direction?

      Love,

      Caz
      X
      Hi Caz,
      I have the full statement ,taken down by Kleinman, Hanratty's solicitor ,and made by Hanratty after he admitted ,in the middle of his trial on 29th January 1962, to his trial barrister Michael Sherrard that he had been lying about three men he stayed with in Liverpool on the night of 22nd August 1961.He makes no mention of any Tarleton Road but rather refers to "Talbot or Carlton' Road-see attached below .Will try to post the paragraph in question now:
      I don't think it particularly odd that passers by outside Lime Street Station didn't come forward.A man in left luggage said he remembered him which is a bit different from a casual passer by.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Natalie Severn; 04-20-2015, 09:13 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by caz View Post
        ...so don't you find it a little odd that Hanratty had to ask 'several local people', none of whom could help him...
        First of all you have looked at a map and found a Tarleton Street. But Hanratty asked for, perhaps, Carlton or Talbot or Tarleton Road or a combination of them. The point being that not every one knows every thoroughfare in their own town like the back of their hand. So why should it seem odd? I have been asked many times by visitors to my town for roads that I hadn't heard of.

        Comment


        • Following on from Derrick's point ,it may be interesting too to people to check out Carlton Street in Liverpool by googling it as this is close to what Hanratty remembers in sounds --- " Carlton" with its first consonant of 'C ' followed by the same sound order he remembered . On 21/12/ 1961 Hanratty told Joe Gillbanks that Aspinall was a "market trader '. Joe Gillbanks was the ex-policeman employed by Michael Sherrard to carry out further investigations for him . When you google Carton Street in Liverpool [there is no Carton Road] you see a road of mixed dwellings and storage warehouses--just the job for a market trader and a fence I would have thought.
          Last edited by Natalie Severn; 04-20-2015, 09:58 AM.

          Comment


          • Hanratty rang Acott twice on the 6th October, from London, and told him about his 3 men in Liverpool alibi. The next day Hanratty rang Acott again from Liverpool.

            At the trial, Acott said that Hanratty had first mentioned the 3 men in Liverpool on the 7th. Acott said that to make it look like Hanratty was only going to Liverpool to establish an alibi for the whole of the murder period.

            This is important.

            Hanratty phoned Barrie Harding of the Daily Mirror at 4:52pm on the 6th and told him all about the 3 men and his Liverpool alibi.

            In fact Harding managed to get the story published for the paper in the morning (7th October) editions.

            This shows that Hanratty was telling the truth and that Acott lied.

            If Acott lied here then when was Acott actually telling the truth?

            Del

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Spitfire View Post
              I would have described myself as a 'Hanratty Defender' until the DNA tests confirmed his guilt.

              I felt that there were considerable difficulties with the prosecution case caused by the mis-identification by Valerie Storie of an innocent man in the first identification parade. I also felt that Hanratty's alleged encounter with Mrs Dinwoodie would have been sufficient to sow the seeds of doubt in the minds of the jury.

              However, the only really rational explanation for Hanratty's DNA being detected on the hanky and the knicker fragment, his lying about staying the night of 22 August in Liverpool, the spent cartridge cases being found in his room at the Vienna, the gun and live ammunition being found in one of his favourite hiding places under the back seat of a bus and the identification of Hanratty by Valerie Storie and the other Redbridge witnesses, is that James Hanratty was the A6 killer.
              Really confusing statement this Spitfire.
              You were a Hanratty defender until the DNA proved his guilt.
              Then you proceed to explain how a list of dodgy frame-up occurrences, take place to also convince you of his guilt.

              Comment


              • Hi Graham. this paragraph..." I am aware that it's on record that Ewer bought at auction at least one valuable painting for an unknown client or clients, but presumably he was acting only as proxy and it was the client's money he was spending. I very seriously believe, and would need a huge amount of convincing otherwise, that Ewer was neither the notorious "Mr X" nor had access to funds which allowed him to cough up 5000 to an unknown braggart and liar like Peter Alphon. Or anyone else, for that matter"

                The Wilson Steer, was being hanged on his shop wall, by Ewer and Mrs Gregsten was it not? So given all we know about Ewer and his association with people the like of Ms. Anderson, its fair to assume it came under the category of stolen goods, It would be naive to believe otherwise I think.
                Buying and selling at auctions for so called clients, makes a good smokescreen for fencing. The way I see it ,if a house breaker is lifting jewelry, cash, ornaments, and maybe the occasional Wilson Steer, and has access to a decent fence, well there's your 5 grand right there, I mean, as you say 500 pounds is a lot of money to pay for a contract on someone. but 5000 isn't a lot, if its not your money.

                Comment


                • PS. Didn't I read somewhere that "for a small time second-hand/antique shop dealer, and one time umbrella repair man, it was interesting that Mr. Ewer lived in quite an expensive Victorian home"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Natalie Severn View Post
                    NickB -a point of information here re the letters France wrote before his suicide: of the two journalists who read the letters one of these believed he [France ] 'was trying to protect his beloved family from the stigma of his own guilt-and that he was,in fact ,involved in the murder '
                    The Sunday Times May 23rd 1971.
                    The statements made by Ewer to the Sunday Times in '71 are very interesting and in particular as Bob Woffingdon puts it, "item 9 is the most amazing part."
                    Why would France,a man he didnt know,go and see Ewer to say how sorry he was for Gregstens death.Apparently France had to be consoled by Ewer as he was so agitated ,and this, several months after the murder,very odd! Ewer actually admitted saying to France "justice has been done,YOU HAVE NOTHING TO REPROACH YOURSELF FOR" what was he reproaching himself about?( I actually added in pencil at the bottom of page 383."How would Ewer know France had anything to reproach himself for?) very strange! Obviously these two people knew each other,yet, Ewer said he had only met France that one time.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by moste View Post
                      The statements made by Ewer to the Sunday Times in '71 are very interesting and in particular as Bob Woffingdon puts it, "item 9 is the most amazing part."
                      Who is he?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Derrick View Post

                        At the trial, Acott said that Hanratty had first mentioned the 3 men in Liverpool on the 7th. Acott said that to make it look like Hanratty was only going to Liverpool to establish an alibi for the whole of the murder period.
                        I thought that was why he went to Liverpool in October. His eventual alibi was that he was in Liverpool until late afternoon then got the 6.00pm bus arriving in Rhyl at 8.19 pm and ended up in some guesthouse accommodation in the late evening. This was not good enough for Jim who went to Liverpool to establish an alibi based on him being in Liverpool for the whole of the evening of 22 August 1961.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Natalie Severn View Post
                          A man in left luggage said he remembered him which is a bit different from a casual passer by.
                          What a pity Hanratty didn't think to ask directions from the left luggage man. If he really had remembered the right man, and on the right date, it would have helped enormously if he'd been able to say that the same man had asked him about a Talbot or Carlton Road!

                          As I've said on many an occasion, if it hadn't been for bad luck, Hanratty would have had no luck at all. Everything and everyone, not least himself, seemed to conspire against him.

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Derrick View Post
                            First of all you have looked at a map and found a Tarleton Street. But Hanratty asked for, perhaps, Carlton or Talbot or Tarleton Road or a combination of them.
                            But as Nats said:

                            Originally posted by Natalie Severn View Post
                            He makes no mention of any Tarleton Road but rather refers to "Talbot or Carlton' Road-see attached below.
                            And herein lies the difficulty. Didn't Mrs D in the sweet shop remember someone asking for Tarleton Street (or Road), whereupon she directed him back towards the city centre? It does make me wonder if Hanratty could have made use of a crony with similar looks who had actually asked for Tarleton Street in the shop.

                            Again, it was bad luck if the crony got the day wrong and it happened on the Monday; bad luck he had a heavy Scots or Welsh accent, not a cockney one; bad luck Hanratty misheard or misremembered the street name and was forced to improvise.

                            Love,

                            Caz
                            X
                            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Natalie Severn View Post
                              Following on from Derrick's point ,it may be interesting too to people to check out Carlton Street in Liverpool by googling it as this is close to what Hanratty remembers in sounds --- " Carlton" with its first consonant of 'C ' followed by the same sound order he remembered . On 21/12/ 1961 Hanratty told Joe Gillbanks that Aspinall was a "market trader '. Joe Gillbanks was the ex-policeman employed by Michael Sherrard to carry out further investigations for him . When you google Carton Street in Liverpool [there is no Carton Road] you see a road of mixed dwellings and storage warehouses--just the job for a market trader and a fence I would have thought.
                              So surely, surely, Gillbanks should have been able to establish that this Aspinall chap existed (perhaps under a different name) and did indeed live in one of a very limited number of roads or streets named Carlton, Talbot or Tarleton, even if he got no joy from Aspinall himself. That much would have been a start. But the fact that you 'would have thought' Carlton Street would have fit the bill for a market trader and fence strongly implies Aspinall was never tracked down to one of these similar sounding addresses. How hard could it have been, unless Hanratty was telling yet more porkies?

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X
                              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                              Comment


                              • “In prison he’d given me his address as Talbot or Carlton Road.”

                                This ties in with the Appeal (section 54) which says Kleinman submitted a written statement that the road names Hanratty said he asked for were Carlton and Talbot.

                                However Mrs D always said that the visitor asked only for Tarleton Road. Hanratty seems to have picked this up and later added ‘Tarleton’ to the road names he said he had been looking for.

                                Over the years the myth has grown that the road names in both accounts were identical. In 2002 Foot claimed:
                                Hanratty said he asked for: “Tarleton or Carlton Road”
                                Mrs D said her visitor asked for: “Tarleton or Carlton Road”
                                Last edited by NickB; 04-21-2015, 02:13 AM.

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