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  • That is likely to have been because France reported the phone call from Hanratty on 5th October.

    Of course I don’t know for sure that France didn’t tell the police about the Vienna. It is my deduction from them only making a ‘possible’ connection from their original source.

    I doubt that France had no idea where Hanratty was or could be found.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NickB View Post
      ...I doubt that France had no idea where Hanratty was or could be found...
      But, as you said, it was Hanratty who called France on the 5th October.

      If France knew where Hanratty was he would have told the police, but Hanratty wasn't frequenting his usual haunts, like the Rehearsal, because he was making a lot of dough without France's help.

      Hanratty may have boasted to Acott about his prowess as a burglar but he didn't need France much anymore did he? And I think France knew it from the moment they got back in contact in the July.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Derrick View Post
        Leonard couldn't have known that the police were looking for a man called Ryan prior to Acott leaving for Ireland on the 29th September.
        According to the Dinenage documentary there was an appeal in the newspapers for a 'J Ryan' wanted in connection with the crime. Leonard saw this and phoned the police.

        Comment


        • Peter Alphon

          A lot of posters ask why Peter Alphon was always let off lightly by the police.
          Maybe the police knew that they had their man in Alphon, but once Valerie Storie failed to pick him in an ID parade, that was it.
          I mean the prosecution could hardly go to court and call the only witness to give her evidence could they.

          Defence to VS: "Do you recognise the accused?

          VS: Err, no.

          Case dismissed.

          So what could the police do?
          They could either close the case which would have been embarrassing, or they could try and find AN other to take the rap.
          They would then want the original suspect to keep a low profile and not draw attention to the case.
          Maybe this is why PLA was given special treatment by the police.

          Thanks

          John
          Last edited by j.kettle1; 09-17-2014, 11:40 AM.

          Comment


          • After the cartridge cases discovery, Ryan was the primary suspect. But the police did not know who he was so they turned their attention to Alphon. None of the A6 witnesses identified Alphon, so when Nudds withdrew his second statement there was not a shred of evidence against him. With Alphon eliminated they did not look for AN other but reverted to Ryan.

            Having been stitched up Alphon sued the police for wrongful arrest and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the money he came by subsequently represented out of court payments from them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by NickB View Post
              ...After the cartridge cases discovery, Ryan was the primary suspect. But the police did not know who he was so they turned their attention to Alphon. None of the A6 witnesses identified Alphon, so when Nudds withdrew his second statement there was not a shred of evidence against him. With Alphon eliminated they did not look for AN other but reverted to Ryan...
              Nick

              That is a complete contradiction isn't it.

              In Foot's book (and I will put up page refs soon) he says that Scotland Yard held an emergency meeting with the DPP just after the identity parade. That could only have meant that the police were still intent on charging Alphon with the A6 murder. Alphon was still in police custody over the Dalal attack afterall.

              Del

              Comment


              • Nick,

                between The Alexandria Hotel incident and brief questioning, and the discovery of the cases at The Vienna, Alphon was as far as I'm aware left alone. As the police already knew, because he told them so, that Alphon had stayed at The Vienna on the 21 August, his name instantly shot to the top of whatever suspect list the police had, and a search was initiated. Alphon surrendered himself to the police (but only after tipping the papers off that he was doing so) on 22 September. Only when the police checked the register at The Vienna did they see that someone called Ryan had also stayed there on the 21st, and in the room where the cases were found. Alphon was only excluded when Valerie failed to pick him out on the i.d. parade also on 22 September and then the hunt for Ryan intensified. Meanwhile Alphon remained in custody over the Dalal attack. I always had the suspicion that Acott still felt that Alphon was his man.

                Graham
                We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                Comment


                • Nudds first statement on 15-Sep-61 talks about Ryan first and in detail with that incriminating mention of the 36 bus. Alphon is mentioned almost as an afterthought and given an alibi.

                  If you believe that Nudds always said whatever he thought the police wanted him to, this means that their first suspect was Ryan.

                  If Derrick is going to quote Foot at me, I’ll quote Acott:

                  "We were left with two strong candidates, Alphon and Ryan. One had to be eliminated.”
                  The superintendent added that he had no alternative but to get Alphon in and eliminate him and, “as I was confident, he was not picked out by any of the witnesses.” [my bold]

                  Comment


                  • There are probably those who still believe that Nudds' first statement was meant to take the heat away from Alphon and place it on Ryan; that he was part of a conspiracy. No-one has proved yet that Nudds had set eyes on either Hanratty or Acott before the night of 21 August. I wouldn't believe any of his statement, personally. And 'in the end' it didn't matter what Nudds said, as the police reached Hanratty without Nudds 'help'.

                    The entire case is like a maze, never mind 'dripping with coincidences'.

                    Graham
                    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Derrick View Post
                      In Foot's book (and I will put up page refs soon) he says that Scotland Yard held an emergency meeting with the DPP just after the identity parade.
                      The discussions with the DPP would have been about whether to proceed with charges over the attack on Mrs Dalal.

                      When Alphon came to court Alfred Nugent of the DPP had to explain why they had decided to pursue the charges. Nugent said it was as a result of Mrs Dalalís identification of Alphon and because he had not told the police about his alibi for that incident until after he was charged.

                      I donít know if the court accepted that explanation because it awarded Alphon 50 guineas costs. It may have taken the view that because Alphon was only brought into the Dalal case as a by-product of being the A6 murder suspect he should have been released upon being eliminated from those enquiries.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                        ...The discussions with the DPP would have been about whether to proceed with charges over the attack on Mrs Dalal...
                        Hi Nick
                        I don't think that that is right.

                        Here is an exchange between Sherrard and Acott at the hearing on 4th December 1961;
                        Sherrard) Were you responsible for an investigation into the conduct of a man called Peter Louis Alphon?
                        Acott) Up to the date when he was handed over to Richmond, on September 24th.
                        Any discussion with the DPP over Dalal would have been between Richmond police and the DPP and not Scotland Yard and the DPP.

                        Del

                        Comment


                        • I suspect if you look at the record the DPP meeting was with the Metropolitan Police, for which both Acott and Davies worked. It appears from the newspaper report that both were interviewing Alphon up to 24-Sep-14, then Davies took sole responsibility thereafter.

                          There was nothing to form the basis of charging him for the A6 murder. In fact Alphon duly issued a High Court writ for defamation and damages for false imprisonment. By then the police could not deny that Nudds second statement had been false.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                            ...I suspect if you look at the record the DPP meeting was with the Metropolitan Police, for which both Acott and Davies worked. It appears from the newspaper report that both were interviewing Alphon up to 24-Sep-14, then Davies took sole responsibility thereafter...
                            But the day after Scotland Yard's meeting with the DPP, DCI Frank Davies assured Mortlake Magistrates' court that they (Richmond);
                            would do everyting in their power to confirm Alphon's story
                            How could the Richmond force approach the DPP before even making a case against Alphon in the Dalal attack?

                            At the same time Nudds had been pulled back in by Scotland Yard.

                            Comment


                            • He was charged on the 24th then appeared in court on the 25th. We know that the DPP were called upon to explain why he was charged, indicating they were involved in that decision.

                              I note that 6 years later on 2-Sep-67 Alphon was fined in Marylebone Magistrates Court for making nuisance calls to Lord Russell and others. The magistrate accepted that he did this under a sense of grievance at being falsely accused of the A6 murder.

                              It is often assumed that Alphon kept up his May-67 Paris ‘confession’ for many years, but this shows that almost immediately afterwards he was back into professing his innocence.

                              Comment


                              • As far as the Dalal case is concerned, his alibi that he was at the distributors of Old Moore's Almanac at the time of the attack on Mrs Dalal was confirmed, when he was picked out on an i.d. parade by the two men who ran the distributors who stated that Alphon was indeed where he said he was at the time of the attack. This i.d. parade was on 29 September, after which Alphon was bailed, and later on 3 October completely cleared of the alleged assault on Mrs Dalal. At some later point he issued a writ against the police for false arrest, and was compensated.

                                Graham
                                We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

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