A6 Rebooted

[j.kettle1]

@Limehouse.

No, I'm sorry I should have made it clearer.

What I meant was the position that Valerie said he was in before she removed his body from the car. It is unlikely that the torso moved due to the shooting, but no-one can be sure of the effects of arm or leg spasms.

Sorry for any confusion.

Thanks

John

[j.kettle1]

Bullet casings in car.

@NickB.


I'm sure that I've seen a photo of two bullet casings in the back of the car.

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks

John

[Limehouse]

@NickB.


I'm sure that I've seen a photo of two bullet casings in the back of the car.

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks

John

From what I understand of the gun, the casings would have been discharged when the gun was fired, not when it was loaded. Therefore, there should have been casings in the car and outside where he shot Valerie.

That is why I am very suspicious about the cartridges (casings) found in the hotel room. I have written about this point elsewhere on the threads, years ago.

[j.kettle1]

From what I understand of the gun, the casings would have been discharged when the gun was fired, not when it was loaded. Therefore, there should have been casings in the car and outside where he shot Valerie

Wouldn't this mean that the gun was an automatic?
Didn't the spent cases need to be removed from the Enfield manually as it wasn't an automatic?

[Spitfire]

Wouldn't this mean that the gun was an automatic?
Didn't the spent cases need to be removed from the Enfield manually as it wasn't an automatic?

Quite right.

The cartridge cases are ejected when the revolver is broken.

This clip illustrates the actions of loading, firing and emptying a double action Enfield Mk2 revolver.

[Spitfire]

From what I understand of the gun, the casings would have been discharged when the gun was fired, not when it was loaded. Therefore, there should have been casings in the car and outside where he shot Valerie.

Wrong see above post 1685.

[j.kettle1]

The cartridge cases are ejected when the revolver is broken.

Thanks for that.

The video shows all six cases being ejected when the gun is broken. Do you happen to know if this applies to bullets also.
For instance if only one bullet had been fired would the gun, when broken, eject the empty casing plus the five remaining bullets?

Thanks

John

[Spitfire]

Thanks for that.

The video shows all six cases being ejected when the gun is broken. Do you happen to know if this applies to bullets also.
For instance if only one bullet had been fired would the gun, when broken, eject the empty casing plus the five remaining bullets?

Thanks

John

I don't know the answer to that.

I know that the earlier Enfields (mk1 and 2) from the late 19th Century had a device which auto ejected only the spent cartridges leaving the unifired rounds still in their chambers.

The correct designation for the murder weapon is, I believe, an Enfield .38 No 2 mk1*, and I've not been able to find out what happens to unfired rounds when the gun is broken.

[Sherlock Houses]

What I meant was the position that Valerie said he was in before she removed his body from the car. It is unlikely that the torso moved due to the shooting, but no-one can be sure of the effects of arm or leg spasms.

Storie said that Gregsten was shot as he was turning halfway around to his left holding the duffel bag with both hands. She said that he then fell forward over the steering wheel. He couldn't have been killed instantaneously from the bullet wounds to his head because somehow or other he was able to move his hands from that particular position [holding the bag] to one where they ended up gripping the steering wheel. It must have been fairly difficult for the couple to free Gregsten's hands as they were stone cold when she touched them more than half an hour later.

[Sherlock Houses]

It seems a little strange that no one has mentioned that today marks the anniversary of Mike Gregsten's murder. R.I.P Michael.

[GUT]

Thanks for that.

The video shows all six cases being ejected when the gun is broken. Do you happen to know if this applies to bullets also.
For instance if only one bullet had been fired would the gun, when broken, eject the empty casing plus the five remaining bullets?

Thanks

John

Yes it would, the empty case remains in a revolver until it is replaced with a live bullet. It is possible to remove one bullet or case. The cases and/or bullets will only fall out if the gun is held a particular way, held another way they stay in until removed.

[Spitfire]

Thanks for that.

The video shows all six cases being ejected when the gun is broken. Do you happen to know if this applies to bullets also.
For instance if only one bullet had been fired would the gun, when broken, eject the empty casing plus the five remaining bullets?

Thanks

John

I posed your question on a gun forum and got the reply that all cartridge cases are ejected irrespective of whether they have been fired or not.

Spitfire alias Beaufighter asks the question

[Derrick]

...Newtons third law (every action has an equal and opposite reaction) applies to both the gunman and the victim in a gun system.
In other words in order for Mike Gregsten to be propelled in any direction then the gunman would have to be propelled, and to an equal extent, in the opposite direction.
Now we know that didn't happen as the bullet entry wounds were virtually on top one another. This couldn't happen if the gunman had recoiled, therefore if there was little or no opposite reaction then Mike Gregsten had little or no forces acting upon him.
Basically what I'm saying is that he was shot in the position that he was found...

Hello John and welcome to the A6 murder threads.
This is a area of some contention as far as I am concerned.
Mr Charles Lewis Nickolls (of the Met Science Lab) performed all of the ballistics in the case and gave evidence that the the gun (.38) was the murder weapon and all of the bullets and cases found were all fired from it.
Dr Keith Simpson was the Home Office pathologist who, in his book published in the mid 1970's, was sure that the wounds in Gregsten and Storie were made by .32 slugs, i.e. from an automatic.
An unexplained anomaly perhaps?
Del

[NickB]

What calibre bullets did Simpson specify in his reports at the time and in his evidence at the trial?

[Derrick]

What calibre bullets did Simpson specify in his reports at the time and in his evidence at the trial?

Hi Nick
I haven't seen Simpson's reports.

Simpson didn't give evidence at the trial with regard to the ballistics, just the nature and position of the wounds.

Del