a6 murder

[larue]

Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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#381 15th August 2007, 04:01 PM
Steve
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Hi Jimarilyn - on my computer it's the right size now.


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#382 15th August 2007, 04:03 PM
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Hi Granger

You need Paintshop or a similar software programme. I'll pm you my email address & if you send it to me I'll resize it for you.


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#383 15th August 2007, 04:46 PM
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Here is a resized version of Granger's picture of Madame Tussards' wax effigy of Hanratty.
Attached Images



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#384 15th August 2007, 05:49 PM
Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
I did once own a Minor, and let me tell you here and now that congress in such a confined space was, shall we say, not straightforward!



Hi Graham

I remember briefly owning a Morris Minor Traveller in the very early 70's. The most memorable thing was two police detectives coming to visit in connection with a murder. It is the only time (I hope) that I have been a possible suspect in a murder investigation. A hitch-hiker was murdered on the M1 and the police thought she had been picked up by someone driving a Morris Minor, so they interviewed every male in the country who owned that particular type of car. I don't believe the police ever solved that one! Thankfully, they never came back to arrest me.

Kind regards,
Steve

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Last edited by Steve : 15th August 2007 at 05:51 PM.


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#385 17th August 2007, 07:59 PM
Graham
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Hi Steve.

Re: your Morris Minor Traveller case, I do have a vague memory of that, but can't find it in the 'Unsolved UK Murders' site. Do you by any chance remember the name of the victim?

That must have been a rather traumatic experience...

...when my dad was about 75 and driving a Vauxhall Viva he too was visited by Old Bill about a Post Office robbery, in which the baddies got away in a Viva. At least he was able to have a good laugh about it. The money came in useful, though....

Cheers,

Graham


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#386 18th August 2007, 08:24 AM
Steve
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Hi Graham

Very funny .....

The murder victim was 24 year old Barbara Mayo. She was a teacher hitch-hiking home to Yorkshire from London and her body was found near junction 29 on the M1. She had been there for a few days. The murder took place in October 1970, but I think it wasn't until the following year that the police decided to check out every male who had access to a Morris Traveller at the time of the murder.

It's a long time ago and I just remember thinking the two policemen were merely going through the motions and didn't really interview me in depth. I wasn't questioned about where I was at the time of the murder or asked to provide an alibi. I think perhaps the police didn't know exactly when the murder had happened, but even so they were less than thorough in their investigation of me as a possible suspect.

This visit took place in West Yorkshire, so perhaps the same detectives questioned Peter Sutcliffe 10 years later. An interesting thought, don't you agree? In fact at about this time **** Holland was in charge of the local CID, his name was always getting mentioned in the local newspaper, and of course he went on to play a very prominent role in the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper.

Kind regards,
Steve

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Last edited by Steve : 18th August 2007 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Richard Holland's name has been asterisked out! Can you believe it! He was universally known by the shortened version of Richard.


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#387 18th August 2007, 07:59 PM
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Hi Steve.

I believe that it is now known via DNA that the murderer of Barbara Mayo (I was fairly sure that this was the case to which you referred) was also the killer of Jackie Ansell-Lamb in Cheshire in the same year. The police reckoned that someone who drove a lorry was the killer, which makes sense. There is also, I think, a suggested link between these two murders and the murder of Wendy Sewell in Bakewell. And, although a quick Googling hasn't raised any information, the unsolved murder of a young woman (can't recall her name)whose body was found near Tamworth. Then there was the unsolved murder of Janice Weston in 1983, whose body was also found on a trunk road. (This case is weird - have you ever read anything about it? And when I say weird, I do mean weird).

Cheers,

Graham


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#388 18th August 2007, 08:22 PM
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Hi Graham

Interesting post. Wendy Sewell? What is the link you have found? I thought this was a completely separate murder. Is there more of a common factor than Derbyshire?

KR
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#389 18th August 2007, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
Hi Graham

Interesting post. Wendy Sewell? What is the link you have found? I thought this was a completely separate murder. Is there more of a common factor than Derbyshire?

KR
Steve


Hi Steve.

I can't be 100% certain, but I do recall reading something concerning Don Hale, who championed the cause of Stephen Downing vis-a-vis the murder of Wendy Sewell. I think Hale suggested that his suspect for the Sewell murder could also possibly be linked to other unsolved murder cases going back over a number of years. If I'm wrong on this, I stand to be corrected. Whether the police agreed with Hale I can't say. But there certainly was a number of unsolved murder cases involving young women in the general area of the north-east Midlands in the 1970's and 1980's, and I do know that the police favoured a lorry-driver as the common link.

Cheers,

Graham


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#390 18th August 2007, 09:19 PM
Steve
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Hi Graham

Now that you mention Don Hale I remember links to other local murders being mentioned. Interesting though that Derbyshire police stopped looking for Wendy's murderer. Wasn't there something about a local stalwart, married, who might have been involved?

The memory can play funny tricks on you, though, as we saw earlier with the Frankie Laine thread!

All the best,
Steve

[larue]

Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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#391 19th August 2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
Hi Graham

Now that you mention Don Hale I remember links to other local murders being mentioned. Interesting though that Derbyshire police stopped looking for Wendy's murderer. Wasn't there something about a local stalwart, married, who might have been involved?

The memory can play funny tricks on you, though, as we saw earlier with the Frankie Laine thread!

All the best,
Steve


Hi Steve.

Unfortunately my copy of Don Hale's book Town Without Pity was lent out some time ago to a certain person who has yet to return it, so I can't add much more to my earlier post. But I do recall that Hale's suspect was indeed a local personality, something of a Mister Big, who was indeed involved in long-distance lorry-driving, and that Hale did postulate some sort of theory that other unsolved murders may well be connected.

But you're right - the memory does play tricks!

Cheers,

Graham


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#392 19th August 2007, 08:09 PM
Steve
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Hi Graham

If the police suspected a lorry driver why were they investigating Morris Traveller drivers?

KR
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#393 19th August 2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
Hi Graham

If the police suspected a lorry driver why were they investigating Morris Traveller drivers?

KR
Steve


Hi Steve.

Good question - don't know!

Cheers,

Graham


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#394 20th August 2007, 12:52 AM
mayerling
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Hi Graham and Steve,



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
Here is a resized version of Granger's picture of Madame Tussards' wax effigy of Hanratty.


Thanks for the photograph of the Tussaud Hanratty, and I have to admit that I was wrong in thinking that well known photo of Jimmy was actually of the statue (even taking into account the dark lighting of the face in the photo of the statue at Tussaud's). Still it is one of the oddest expressions I have ever seen in a man's or woman's photograph.

I take that the statue is in their storage facility now - in 1992 when I visited London they did not have his statue out - but the Ripper, Charles Peace, Percy Lefroy, Graham Young, Crippen, George Joseph Smith, and Neilson. I'm not sure if Heath was standing there. I think the Christie Rillington Place tableaux was (Smith's was a tableaux with a drowned wife in the tub he was stabbing over). The Ripper tableaux was of a street with one of the victim's (I think Chapman) surrounded by onlookers and police.

There was also (in the main room upstairs - one or two pieces (the perambulator and the wax image of baby Hogg) from the Pearcey case.

Best wishes,

Jeff


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#395 20th August 2007, 03:04 AM
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I have been reading this thread because I wasn't familiar with this case. I decided to see if there was a James Hanratty story on the Crime Library website, and there is not. One of you experts should consider writing a synopsis of the case for that site!


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#396 20th August 2007, 06:20 AM
Steve
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Hi Jeff

It's a few years since I went to Tussauds and there was no Hanratty on show at that time.

Rgds,
Steve


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#397 20th August 2007, 06:23 AM
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Hi Brenda

That really is surprising, you would have thought the A6 murder would have been included in the crime library. I might just take you up on that suggestion when I get some to spare.

Rgds,
Steve


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#398 20th August 2007, 11:40 PM
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Steve -
that's good. It would be a shame for the knowledge you or the others have to "go to waste", it would be a good addition to Crime Library.


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#399 21st August 2007, 02:21 AM
mayerling
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Hi Steve,

I imagine that the museum changes it's exhibits as much as possible to keep up with events or changes in public taste. For example, they have a constant exhibit of the main members of the Royal Family. When the Duchess of York (Sarah Ferguson) divorced her husband, her figure was taken away.

Of course as time passes many of the earlier killers just fade from public memory. I have a Madame Tussaud's guide from the 1960s (my mother's friend went to London and brought it back for me). It had statues listed of Felice Orsini, Guiseppi Fieschi, Frederick Deeming (called Alfred Deeming), John Wilkes Booth, Charles Guiteau. I think Booth (and Deeming possibly) are still recalled, but how many recall the attacks by Orsini on Napoleon III in 1858 (which led to an international incident between England and France, regarding the bombs used), or the Fieschi and his "infernal machine" gun that killed a score of people, including a Duke, but failed to kill King Louis Philippe - the target - in 1835? Guiteau (Garfield's assassin) was as weird as Deeming, and his trial is the only actual trial of a Presidential assassin in U.S.History (Booth was killed, as was Oswald, before their trials, and Czolgosz got a strange trial of eight hours length where his defense attorneys attacked his character - nobody liked Leon Czolgosz. Still mostly Americans would recall Charles Guiteau.

Still the section was a grim one to me - I did not think I would be so affected by it when I went there.

I'm curious to see the New York City Tussaud's one day.

Jeff


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#400 21st August 2007, 07:51 PM
Graham
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Hi all.

My dad took me to Tussaud's when I was about 14 and the Chamber of Horrors scared the hell out of me! No Hanratty then - before the Case. But I remember Christie and Haig and especially Crippen - the most scary of the lot! Chessman and Hauptmann were also on display, both looking somewhat apprehensive...

I wasn't aware that Hanratty was no longer on display, given how 'celebrated' his Case was (and still is).

Cheers,

Graham

[larue]

halfway

that's the first 40. i'll do the rest asap

cheers

larue

[Steve]

Hi Larue

That must have taken you forever!

I think you deserve a day off now .... many thanks for all your time and effort, it's fantastic to see all the old postings restored.

Kind regards,
Steve

[richardnunweek]

Thanks Larue,
Very much appreciated,by I am sure everyone on Casebook that takes a intrest in the Hanratty case, which I am one.
Regards Richard.

[Graham]

Larue,

The mind boggles, mate! Absolutely wonderful! When I get the time I'll read through all those old posts. A million thanks for what must have been a seriously major effort on your part!

Steve,

Re: my 'lost' post. Thanks for the offer which is really appreciated. However, I've found something slightly untoward in the way my computer is set up. I did save a hard copy of my post, which I have to say needs re-writing, but it'll keep until I can get the computer-doctor to administer medication. Great to see your photos, again, too!

I'm re-reading my copy of Leonard Miller's 'Shadows Of Deadman's Hill', which I think is now out of print, but in my view a necessary textbook for anyone interested in the A6 Case.

Cheers,

Graham

[Limehouse]

Fantastic work Larue. Thanks so much. This is a brilliant thread. Rational debate, polite exchange of views and information and no unpleasantness. How refreshing.

[Steve]

Re: my 'lost' post. Thanks for the offer which is really appreciated. However, I've found something slightly untoward in the way my computer is set up. I did save a hard copy of my post, which I have to say needs re-writing, but it'll keep until I can get the computer-doctor to administer medication. Great to see your photos, again, too!

Hi Graham

Computers are wonderful things, they save us all hours and hours of laborious work; book-keeping is minimised thanks to spreadsheets, writing letters takes no time at all thanks to word processors, and design work is acheived in a jiffy thanks to desk top publishing.

What do we do with all this spare time computers give us?

We mend our computers; re-boot them because something isn't working properly, re-install programmes because they don't work properly and eventually wipe the hard drive because it is running slowly or has picked up a virus.

What would we do without computers?

I'm using another new laptop at the moment (they seem to have a built-in predetermined lifespan of about 18 months) and this one came with Microsoft Vista. I find half of my programmes (including Adobe) do not work with Vista,
that my printer only uses the default drivers so I no longer have advanced control over its output, and the help menus are largely disabled because the do not recognise Vista!

I wonder what Hanratty would have made of computers?

Kind regards,
On-topic Steve

[Steve]

Fantastic work Larue. Thanks so much. This is a brilliant thread. Rational debate, polite exchange of views and information and no unpleasantness. How refreshing.

Hi Limehouse

I agree 100% with your comments!

Larue's efforts in restoring the first part of the text from the old thread is fantastic, and I look forward to the second part appearing when he gets his breath back!

KR
Steve

[Graham]

Steve,

I work from home and have a remote-desktop link to the office. It is an absolute nightmare! It works well for a time, then suddenly, out of the blue, I start to get kicked out of remote - not just once, but literally dozens of times a day! Our (professional and highly-paid) computer technician hasn't got a clue as to the cause of the problem.

As to lap-tops - I have three 'dead' ones in my filing-cabinet. I've been told that once the hard-drive on a lap-top reaches about 55% capacity, they just lie down and die. My last one, like yours, lasted about 18 months. It now takes about 45 minutes to start up, and is sooooo slow as to be a waste of valuable time.

I know absolutely what JH would have thought of computers, but I'm too polite to relate it.

I wonder what the managers of BA Terminal 5 currently think about computers?

Cheers,

Graham

[Steve]

Graham

I bought my first laptop about 12 years ago. It cost more than a couple of thousand pounds plus VAT from 'Lapland' in Basingstoke. It lasted 18 months, so I bought another and I have now lost track of how many laptops I have owned, but as a for instance I have an old non-working Sony on this desk at home, and a couple of slow-working laptops in my office at work. I used to give outgoing laptops to the kids, but they are so cheap now that there is not a lot of point.

My current laptop is a state-of-the-art Acer (with Vista) that cost about £500 inc VAT and every task seems to take a little longer than it did with that original 'from the Ark' laptop of12 years ago.

Have computers saved me money over the years? Do you know what, I think I could have employed my own bookkeeper/bagman (my own version of Sgt Oxford) for less money than I have spent on computers, hardware and software in recent years.

KR
Steve

[Limehouse]

I am sorry you chaps are having trouble with your laptops but I am so glad you aired your problems on the Forum because I have been considering buying one. What has put me off so far is the need for a larger than normal keyboard (due to my visual and coordination problems) and the fact that I have such a problem manipulating an internal mouse. I tried a specially adapted one at work but just could not get on with the mouse. I was told I could connect an external mouse though.

I think computers have created the work culture we have had in this country for the past ten or fifteen years. For example, there are some tasks that I am required to do as part of my job that would never have been required fifteen years ago due to the amount of time it would have taken to collate and analyse the information. Because computers are so good at data crunching, we are asked to input and analyse endless amounts of information. I am asked to produce a SAR (self assessment report) a SED (student exit and destination report) a SPOC (student preception of course survey) and an ECR (end of course review). Then there is all the software programmes we have to learn - CAPS and ProAchieve for course analysis and projections, SmartBoard for teaching purposes and we also have to set our courses up on the VLE (Virtual Learning Environment) and the Intranet (an internal information highway). That is without the everyday software such as Outlook, Word, PowerPoint, Access and Excel that I have to be familiar with. However, when it comes to defrag and re-booting and installing I'm hopeless.

Having said that, the Internet is wonderful. I can 'talk' to people with common interests, listen to great music using YouTube, Look at and download images of old London, research my family history and sites such as BBC.com are an endless source of teaching resources if used carefully. I can even use Google Satelite maps to view my sister-in-law's new home in Australia!

Night All.

[Graham]

Limehouse,

You have smacked the nail firmly on the head - without computers we wouldn't be communicating now. I LOVE the Internet and always have. What I do NOT love is the way computers are increasingly being utilised to remove the human input from one's job. That I hate.

I note what you said about SAR. I refused to take part. My attitude is that if my boss has any criticism of me or my work then he can tell me face to face. I refuse to criticise myself - more than anything it's a sign of weakness and so PC it makes my eyes water. However, I take it that you are a teacher, so presumably you're totally stuck with this stuff - you have my sympathy.

Cheers,

Graham

PS:

Steve, I bet old Basil Acott and his pals would have totally LOVED a computer....

[Steve]

PS: Steve, I bet old Basil Acott and his pals would have totally LOVED a computer....

Good to see that you are staying on-topic, Graham !!!

[jimarilyn]

Hi Larue

Excellent work on your part, thank you. Just spent last couple of hours revisiting all those postings which I thought were gone forever.

Does anyone on this fascinating forum know if the full trial transcript is accessible to Joe Public and if so where does one go to view it ?

Re. the infamous Morris Minor, without wishing to come across as morbid, I would have thought that greater efforts would have been made by the police to preserve this vital piece of evidence for posterity. They are very small cars and would not have taken up much space. It should have been the most important exhibit of all. Goodness knows what further tests on it might have yielded.