a6 murder

[babybird67]

Hi Babybird

Hanratty didn't get caught long enough to keep Louise Anderson in business with cheaply fenced goods.

He properly stole a Jag to head north when wanted for the A6 murder. Who knows how many other cars Hanratty pinched to order?

He also didn't get caught for the Stanmore robbery which proved that Hanratty had stolen a jacket, although the plod were thick enough to not record this offence properly.

His last letters to his family convince me of a man trying bravely to come to terms with a fate that a petty thief in the 20th century didn't deserve.

Derrick

And yet he wasnt out of prison long enough to properly learn to drive was he?

There is nothing brave about a rapist and murderer. Save your plaudits for the victims of his crime. It would reflect better on you.

[Derrick]

..its in "The Mystery of Deadman"s Hill"-Colin Wilson contributed to the article...

HI all
I may be a bit thick but who is Colin Wilson? And what article is this?

Derrick

[babybird67]

Hi Babybird

There is no need pet as Mrs Dinwoodie identified James Hanratty visually in court in 1962 as being the man who came into the shop.

Derrick

Do you have a reference, pet? Thanks awfully.

Maybe her eyesight was as defective as her hearing.

[Victor]

Hi Derrick,

A bit harsh mate. Hanratty was on trial for his life. How would you feel having pleaded not guilty.

I was just pointing out that Hanratty wasn't the whimpering underdog that Norma was making him out to be, but he was a veteran of the courtroom. And as you pointed out...

I don't know about calm but from the transcripts I have read Hanratty gave as good as he got in his joust with Graham Swanwick.

...so he wasn't as disadvantaged as all that, and he had Sherrard there for support.

To be fair, I am not sure that court transcripts would record anything but what was actually said unless asked to do so by the judge. So it would appear that the dropping of the book wouldn't have been seen by either Foot or Woffinden because they were not there, unlike Michael Hanrattty who was. I have no reason to doubt his word. Do you?

Erm... The agrieved brother of the hanged man, yes I doubt it was as dramatic as Michael Hanratty suggests - and I believe that Foot and Woffinden think so too, otherwise they would use a reliable source for the exchange, rather than phrasing it in that cumbersome but deliberate way.

KR,
Vic.

[Victor]

So what was likely to be have been important that it would have been stored in the broken vial that was found?

Hi Derrick,

Well from the judgment...
"A suggestion, which has not been contradicted, is that the seminal stain may have been washed out and retained in the form of a liquid."
"Mr Roger Mann, who has thirty-two years experience as a forensic scientist, gave evidence that he has never come across a vial or tube containing liquid being retained on a file"

It's way more likely that the little vial contained hairs (for example) rather than a liquid, and as there were some of Alphon's hairs in the file, maybe there were some of Hanratty's too - in the vial.

KR,
Vic.

[Victor]

Hi Derrick,

Mrs Dinwoodie identified James Hanratty visually in court in 1962 as being the man who came into the shop.

Come on - there was only one person sat in the dock when she was essentially asked "Is that him?" - it's the worst basis for confirming an identification possible - worse even than being shown one photograph and being asked if you have seen this person!

KR,
Vic.

[NickB]

Olive Dinwoodie's statement on 17th October:
“It was definitely the Monday because I was alone on the Tuesday. My grand-daughter was only with me on the Monday. The photograph you have shown me is one of the man who came in on Monday, 21 August asking for Tarleton Road.”

Clearly if it was the Monday she was wrongly identifying Hanratty. She later said that it might also have been the Tuesday when her grand-daughter had passed through. But this did not make it as likely as the Monday, because he would have had to visit just at that time.

In any case there was doubt about whether Mrs Dinwoodie herself was in the shop on the Tuesday. Albert Harding, a long-distance lorry driver who had visited the shop on both days, gave evidence that he only saw her there on the Monday.

[Graham]

Mrs Dinwoody's testimony was never strong anyway, but it was undermined by poor handling by both the police and the defence.

Joe Gillbanks agreed that he had conducted extensive inquiries in both Liverpool and Rhyl, adding, quote, "I have no hesitation in saying that I found no reliable person in either place which would convince me as an ex-police office that Hanratty had been in either place on 22 and 23 August 1961", unquote. This statement was made to Nimmo during the latter's inquiry.

Gillbanks was the experienced investigator who was actually doing the leg-work on behalf of the defence, and I think the above statement should be taken seriously.

Graham

[NickB]

Presumably Gillbanks could find no evidence that Dinwoodie was even in the shop on Tuesday, to counter the doubt thrown on this by Harding.

[babybird67]

presumably..

one would also have to question the reliability of a witness who could not distinguish either Scots from Welsh, or either of those from a broad London accent.

Doesn't really inspire the greatest of confidences in the accuracy of the identification does it. Good point, also, Victor, about Mrs Dinwoodie being asked if the defendant was the same man. Not exactly being picked out of a line up was he.

[Graham]

Mrs Dinwoodie was shown just one photo by the policeman sent to interview her - that of Hanratty. Then she was asked if the man in the dock was the man she remembered? Why wasn't an ID parade arranged for Mrs D if the defence were confident in her abilities to recognise him? The answer is simple: the defence had very little confidence in her - they were clutching at straws. As they were with Mrs Jones.

The Liverpool Alibi might just have scored some points for Hanratty had he stuck to it, but the Rhyl 'Alibi' is utterly mythical.

Sherrard must have known that his client was dooming himself when he swapped to a totally transparent ambush-alibi. Absolutely no criticism of Michael Sherrard implied whatsoever, but I am sure many other barristers would have counselled Hanratty to stick with his Liverpool story and challenge the jury to disprove it.

Graham

[Graham]

Colin Wilson

For Derrick's benefit, Colin Wilson is a philosopher/novelist/criminologist who first came to fame with his social novel "The Outsider" in 1956. He takes an interest in true crime, and has written widely on Jack The Ripper, Rasputin, Aleister Crowley and others. He was associated with the "Angry Young Men" movement of the 1950's.

According to Norma, he contributed to The Mystery Of Deadmans Hill, by which I assume she means the TV documentary by Bob Woffinden. It's a long time since I saw it, I don't have a copy, and frankly can't remember Colin Wilson being on it, which is not to say that he wasn't. However, Norma asserts that in this documentary Colin Wilson states that Terry Evans was away from Rhyl the week of 21st August 1961, which is why Hanratty couldn't find him. If this is true, then Colin Wilson is the only person I'm aware of to make this statement, and if anyone knows different then please let me know!

Graham

[NickB]

I am sure many other barristers would have counselled Hanratty to stick with his Liverpool story and challenge the jury to disprove it.

Rumpole would have stopped Hanratty as soon as he started to tell him the Liverpool story was a lie.

Once it was out of the bag, any barrister would be in difficulty.

[Victor]

Colin Wilson is a philosopher/novelist/criminologist who first came to fame with his social novel "The Outsider" in 1956. He takes an interest in true crime, and has written widely on Jack The Ripper, Rasputin, Aleister Crowley and others. He was associated with the "Angry Young Men" movement of the 1950's.

Hi Graham,

Was he Septic Blue who did all the geographic profiling?

However, Norma asserts that in this documentary Colin Wilson states that Terry Evans was away from Rhyl the week of 21st August 1961, which is why Hanratty couldn't find him. If this is true, then Colin Wilson is the only person I'm aware of to make this statement, and if anyone knows different then please let me know!

I think Woffinden says he parked in a different place to normal, not "was away". In any case Hanratty would have gone to the house where he had previously stayed the night - if he was really there and looking for him.

KR,
Vic.

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

Was he Septic Blue who did all the geographic profiling?


I think Woffinden says he parked in a different place to normal, not "was away". In any case Hanratty would have gone to the house where he had previously stayed the night - if he was really there and looking for him.

KR,
Vic.

Hi Vic,

I wouldn't know if he was Septic Blue, but I guess he could have been. However, not sure if Colin Wilson would go in for anything like that, but you never know. I think it was Wilson who interviewed Dr Dutton about the Royal Conspiracy.

Yes, I'd forgotten about the taxi, but as you say Hanratty knew where Evans lived and worked.

Graham