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  • #61
    Whilst I'm trawling ....

    ... through my Hanratty archives, here is another post I made on the old thread which Casebook members with an interest in the Hanratty case might find interesting:

    Throughout the A6 murder enquiry and subsequent court case against James Hanratty Superintendent Bob Acott played a decisive role. He and his assistant Ken Oxford have occasionally been castigated for their actions in exonerating Peter Alphon and vilified for fabricating or manipulating evidence against James Hanratty. Therefore it is worth spending a little time looking at Mr Acott’s character and background.

    He was born in Ilford, Essex in January 1913 and joined the Metropolitan Police in 1933 as a 20 year-old former furniture representative. When World War Two started in 1939 Bob Acott was a police constable in a reserved occupation and could easily have avoided active service. He chose, however, to join RAF Bomber Command in April 1942; police officers were given special dispensation to do so because of the high casualty rate in Bomber Command at that stage of the war. He joined the RAF as a private, ended the war as a commissioned officer, Flight Lieutenant, and during his service with the RAF was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.

    After WW2, even though he had been an officer in the RAF, Acott rejoined the Metropolitan Police as an ordinary police constable. He gained promotion to Sergeant at the end of 1946 when he was 33 years-old, and further promotions followed including a position as Detective Inspector in 1955.

    In 1961, Basil Montague Acott, was a 48 year-old married family man living in South London with undisputable integrity, a first class record of service in the Metropolitan Police, holding the rank of Detective Superintendent, having been promoted from Chief Inspector the previous year, and earning £163 per month.

    He might have been sitting at home eating a meal or watching television when his life changed forever one August evening that year as a lone gunman approached a parked Morris Minor in a cornfield at Dorney Reach.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Limehouse View Post
      Hi all,

      I can think of one reason why France might have wanted to conspire to frame Hanratty - apparently, Hanratty had sex with Frances' daughter in the back of a car. In those days, that kind of carry on would have offended a man deeply, even one with murky connections.

      However, maybe Hanratty was not framed at all. May be he was hired to separate the couple and things got out of hand. When it ended in murder, those who collaborated to separate the couple (perhaps Ewer, working with France) closed ranks to cover their owen back, framing Hanratty in the process.

      Having said that, we only THINK Hanratty was 'quite a nice chap really'. We don't know for suree that he was not guilty of violent crimes that never surfaced. It's unlikely, but possible. As an indication that Hanratty was not always so nice, to help stabilise him after a spell 'inside' Hanratty's father cashed in his pension and started a window cleaning round with his son. he gave up everything to help his son. Hanratty stuck it for a few months, then ran off. Nice way to treat your father.
      Morning Limehouse

      Certainly France’s attitude towards Hanratty changed after the murder. It could be that France was appalled by the fact that his friend was capable of committing rape and murder. It could also have been, as you say, because Dixie knew that Hanratty had been intimate with his daughter, though given the fact that this was 1961 and before the sexual revolution I think it very unlikely that Dixie ever knew about this. Very few fathers would have known anything about their daughters’ sex lives in 1961.

      The family’s view was that Dixie was horrified that he had allowed a murderer into the family home and that he was driven to attempt suicide as a result, and of course eventually to take his own life.

      I don’t believe that Hanratty was hired to separate the couple, I think it much more likely that it really was a random attack that went much further than the gunman planned. I don’t think that Hanratty ever planned very much in his life, and I don’t think he was the kind of individual anyone would have employed to end a love affair and split up a married man and his girl friend.

      I do think it highly possible that Dixie played a part in making sure that enough evidence was discovered to incriminate Hanratty. If so, we will never know his true reasons for doing so.

      On the point about thinking Hanratty was ‘quite a nice chap really’ in all probability he was nothing of the sort, and you are almost certainly right that he committed other crimes, possibly even violent crimes, that never came to light.

      Kind regards,
      Steve

      Comment


      • #63
        Hi Steve,

        Re. your piece about Bob Acott. That may well be true what you wrote about Acott. It doesn't mean he's not capable of fitting up a London criminal and "acting out of character" as you would have the car thief/burglar Hanratty do. I thought the following article (re. The Cameo Cinema murder in 1949) might be of some interest to you :

        Local Mysteries with Tom Slemen

        CHIEF Inspector Herbert Balmer was born in Cairns Street in the 'south end' of Liverpool in 1902.

        He attended St Silas's School on High Park Street, Toxteth, and left at the age of 16 to start an apprenticeship at a shipbuilding yard in Garston.

        Balmer worked there for three years until the yard was forced to close because of a major strike and the effects of the Depression.

        Seeing the chaotic effects of Socialism at close quarters during the strike at the Garston shipyard turned Balmer against his own class.

        He developed an ambition to become middle class, and later joined the Liverpool City Police.

        By 1930, the 28-year-old Balmer had become a detective with a personal crusade to rid Liverpool of its 'criminal scum'.

        Around this time, he declared war on the 'Throstle Gang', who operated from a base on Renshaw Street.

        One night, the gang used a very attractive woman to pick up a rich naive young man on Mount Pleasant.

        The woman took the man down Benson Street, where she asked him to light her cigarette, and he did, unaware that this was a signal for the Throstles to attack.

        The man was knocked unconscious and robbed of his wallet and watch.

        The gang and their beautiful bait hurried away, and did not notice Balmer and his officers in the shadows watching them.

        He pursued the gang with his men and made an arrest.

        Each member was later sentenced to seven years, and the woman received 12 months in prison after claiming she had been forced into the racket.

        Criminologist Keith Andrews alleges that: 'Throughout the 1930s, Balmer became involved in many criminal rackets, from dealings with strong-arm thugs who creamed off money from the bookies with protection scams at the Grand National racecourse at Aintree, right across the board to organised gangs who stole cargo at the docks.

        'Balmer maintained that the American Army hired him to get to the bottom of large-scale pilfering at Liverpool Docks during World War Two.

        'Balmer claimed he disguised himself as a spiv who was willing to buy stolen US Jeeps and cases of watches and jewellery from the crooks, and told how he single-handedly smashed the black-market ring, earning a letter of thanks from J. Edgar Hoover.

        'The reality was a little different.

        'Balmer took a percentage of the takings from the gangs that operated the black market racket and ended up arresting the men behind the operation.

        'Furthermore, he abused his position by selling Hackney Police taxi licences and baggage passes for the docks to an assortment of unsavoury characters with criminal records.

        'Balmer also established a network of pimps, jailbirds and prostitutes who not only acted as his informers; they were also on standby to act as false witnesses against anyone Balmer was fitting up.

        'In the Cameo Case, Balmer coached prostitute Jacqueline Dickson so she would go into the witness box and state that she had been in the Beehive with George Kelly when he supposedly plotted the cinema hold-up.

        'Balmer also procured false testimony from a prisoner in Walton Gaol who said he had met Kelly and Connolly in the prison and that they had both admitted their guilt.

        'This prisoner had been in Preston prison before Balmer and other officials had him specially transferred to Walton Gaol, just to swear the men's lives away - and the court believed his testimony.'

        George Kelly was hanged as a result of the accusations, and Balmer was rewarded the King's Police and Fire Services medal for his 'meritorious work' in solving the Cameo Murders case.

        Comment


        • #64
          Hi jimarilyn

          Thanks for the last posting about Herbert Balmer. It's a very interesting read, especially because I know very well several of the Liverpool locations mentioned.

          The posting about Mr Acott provides interesting background information, it's not designed to refute any possibility that Hanratty was fitted up. Probably only Messrs Acott and Oxford know for certain if the case against Hanratty was ‘improved’ in any way, and that knowledge died with them.

          Kind regards,
          Steve

          Comment


          • #65
            Hi Steve

            You mentioned in an earlier post about Peter Alphon refusing to discuss the case. Do you know this from first hand experience ?

            Comment


            • #66
              I just wrote a gurt long post re: Hanratty, but when I came to submit it my sign-up or whatever had timed out.

              Anyone know how I can post a scanned and saved document?

              Cheers,

              Graham
              We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

              Comment


              • #67
                Hi

                Just realised that today marks the 46th anniversary of the execution of James Hanratty. Wishful thinking I know but wouldn't it be great if James's brother Michael Hanratty was into computers and became aware of this forum. I would think his insight and thoughts on the whole case would be very interesting and illuminating. The same applies to Peter Alphon but I would imagine at the age of 77 and given his current circumstances he's not likely to be so inclined. Still, one can hope.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by jimarilyn View Post
                  Hi

                  Just realised that today marks the 46th anniversary of the execution of James Hanratty. Wishful thinking I know but wouldn't it be great if James's brother Michael Hanratty was into computers and became aware of this forum. I would think his insight and thoughts on the whole case would be very interesting and illuminating. The same applies to Peter Alphon but I would imagine at the age of 77 and given his current circumstances he's not likely to be so inclined. Still, one can hope.
                  The real tragedy of this and similar cases is in the legacy such cases leave to the surviving members of the family. I really think that all we can do as far as Michael Hanratty (and his brothers and other members of the family) is concerned is to perhaps give a minute's thought for them and what they have suffered over the past 46 years. Michael and his parents were placed in a situation that is impossible for us, in 2008, to even imagine. The rights and the wrongs of the case don't enter into it. When all is said and done, James Hanratty was part of them.

                  Graham
                  We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Graham View Post
                    I just wrote a gurt long post re: Hanratty, but when I came to submit it my sign-up or whatever had timed out.

                    Anyone know how I can post a scanned and saved document?

                    Cheers,

                    Graham
                    Hi Graham

                    If you have saved your scanned document as a picture file (.jpg for instance) you can post it as an attachment just like any other photo attachment using the 'Manage Attachments' button on this page. If it is in Acrobat format (.pdf) just save it as a picture file first and then upload it as above.

                    Or if you prefer just email it to me and I'll post it for you.

                    Kind regards,
                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      right guys.

                      here goes. the mammoth task of uploading all the 'old' posts i have. i must admit i chickened out of the task of editting out all extraneous characters and just leaving the posts themselves. i would never have the time to do it. i may not have time today to post all 76 pages

                      apologies if i double post, or **** up in any other ways....





                      Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
                      James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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                      #1 21st July 2006, 12:52 PM
                      rigby
                      Inspector Join Date: Jan 2006
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                      James Hanratty: Guilty ?

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Here's a mystery if ever there was one. He was seen by no less than six independent witnesses over a hundred miles away from the scene of a murder, yet he was tried and hung for it in 1962. In 2002, at the court of appeal, there was a major twist when DNA evidence seemed to affirm his guilt and the conviction was maintained. However, his relatives are convinced as ever that he was fitted up.

                      Links:







                      Find a Grave is a free resource for finding the final resting places of famous folks, friends and family members. With millions of names, it is an invaluable tool for genealogist and history buffs.



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                      #2 21st July 2006, 01:08 PM
                      jason_connachan
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      I have little doubt of Hanratty's guilt. With a cause "cause celebr" such as Hanratty many people come out of the woodwork with dubious tales to tell.


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                      #3 21st July 2006, 02:09 PM
                      sreid
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Hi all,

                      Why fix the DNA test? Tim Evans was almost certainly hanged as an innocent man and everyone's pretty much gotten over that.

                      Crime is a war against civilization and sometimes innocent people are killed in war. That's no reason to capitulate to the enemy.

                      Stan
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                      #4 21st July 2006, 04:01 PM
                      rigby
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by sreid
                      Hi all,

                      Why fix the DNA test? Tim Evans was almost certainly hanged as an innocent man and everyone's pretty much gotten over that.



                      Yeah ? Ask his family. And who's this "everyone" ye profess to know so well ?


                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by sreid
                      Crime is a war against civilization and sometimes innocent people are killed in war. That's no reason to capitulate to the enemy.

                      Stan


                      How peculiar of you.

                      Cheers.


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                      #5 21st July 2006, 04:41 PM
                      sreid
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      We'd all like to live in a fantasy world but that doesn't answer my question.
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                      #6 21st July 2006, 05:42 PM
                      rigby
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      I would but I don't get your point. No-one is suggesting that a DNA test was fixed (are they ?). Some have suggested that the original conviction was way dodgy. Maybe it wasn't but there was reasonable doubt.

                      Oh, and you didn't answer my question...

                      ...but I 'aint bothered in the slightest and rather you didn't.

                      Anything Hanratty-related to bring to the table ? Else this wasn't the thread you were looking for.


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                      #7 21st July 2006, 05:59 PM
                      sreid
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      So, if the DNA wasn't fixed, he's guilty-end of story.
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                      #8 21st July 2006, 06:42 PM
                      mcd
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Hanratty may well be guilty. But that DNA evidence didn't exist in 1962, and based on what was potentially available for the trial then, I'd agree with Mr Regan that the verdict was incomprehensible, and the trial injustice.


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                      #9 21st July 2006, 07:07 PM
                      sreid
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      What DNA (to compare to Hanratty) was tested other than what was recovered in 1961?
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                      #10 21st July 2006, 08:21 PM
                      richardn
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                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Hi,
                      The only dubious aspect of the case comes from Valeries statement which indicates strongly that the killer and rapist and attempted killer had no [apparently so] knowledge of how to drive a morris minor.
                      This would appear to be a contradiction.
                      James Hanratty was a petty thief and a car thief, this is a recorded fact, if Hanratty was trying to indicate to Storie that he had lack of knowledge how to drive that car, why would he drive like a non driver after he fired several shots into Valerie leaving her for certain dead.?
                      She stated that after he believed she was dead he drove away crunching the gears and acting like a complete novice, this was further mentioned in a witnesses report that a man seen driving the said car was driving in a wreckless manner.
                      Also if one goes back to the actual encounter , if the guily partys aim was to secure transport , why did he not simply order the couple out of the car, and instruct them to lay face down in the cornfield why he drove away the vehicle.
                      Simple as that.
                      Clearly the killer had no knowledge of driving any car, and the motive remains a mystery , unless more sinister reasons can be uncovered.
                      Regards Richard.
                      Last edited by larue; 04-06-2008, 11:32 AM.
                      atb

                      larue

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                      • #71
                        Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
                        James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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                        #11 21st July 2006, 08:47 PM
                        tel
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Clearly the killer had no knowledge of driving any car

                        Or simply in a blue funk over the preceeding events?
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                        #12 21st July 2006, 09:07 PM
                        sreid
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Hi all,

                        Whether he knew how to drive the car or not means nothing against the DNA evidence. Who knows if he was on drugs, out of his mind or what.

                        My cars are six-speed stick shifts and I couldn't get my parent's automatic transmission car into gear at first until I was told that you had to put your foot on the brake before you could take it out of neutral. Many different cars drive differently.

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                        #13 21st July 2006, 10:53 PM
                        rigby
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by sreid
                        Hi all,

                        Whether he knew how to drive the car or not means nothing against the DNA evidence. Who knows if he was on drugs, out of his mind or what.

                        My cars are six-speed stick shifts and I couldn't get my parent's automatic transmission car into gear at first until I was told that you had to put your foot on the brake before you could take it out of neutral. Many different cars drive differently.

                        Stan


                        Stan,

                        Back then DNA evidence was science fiction. I'm sure I read that at one time some of Hanratty's clothes were kept in the same box as clothes from the scene. Can we therefore be certain that DNA found 'at the scene of the crime' wasn't a subsequent contamination issue ? People tend to think that as no other DNA was extracted from the samples, Hanratty was even more certainly the Killer but what if the Killer left no DNA at the scene at all or his tissues/fluids were perhaps lost from those samples ?


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                        #14 21st July 2006, 11:21 PM
                        sreid
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Hi Rigby,

                        Why wasn't this issue brought up before the test was done then. They seem to be moving the goal posts when they don't get the result they wanted. The chances of cross contamination are too low to warrant much fret. They did have serology cross contamination to consider so I think they'd be advanced enough not to throw all the evidence into one bag, especially since it was collected separately.

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                        #15 22nd July 2006, 11:13 AM
                        jason_connachan
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by tel
                        Clearly the killer had no knowledge of driving any car

                        Or simply in a blue funk over the preceeding events?


                        Agreed.

                        Assuming Hanratty had never murdered before, the events which had just taken place may have stressed him out completely. He also had to think on his feet over how to get away with the crime. Some people cant multi-task.


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                        #16 23rd July 2006, 10:08 AM
                        bobhinton
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        I'm not absolutely sure but I believe all those witnesses who testified Hanratty was somewhere else at the time didn't come forward until after Hanratty was hanged.

                        As for Timothy Evans being innocent, personally I've always thought he had in fact murdered his baby.
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                        #17 23rd July 2006, 11:02 AM
                        easy12
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Hi Bob,
                        One of the controversial aspects of the case was the fact that the Police failed to chase up Hanratty's alibi in Rhyll and so ,as far as the court was aware,there was no credible alibi in Rhyll.The witnesses there obviously thought that their testimony wasn't required,being such a serious case they thought that if needed they would surely be called and thus there was,in their mind,no need to come forward.By the time the facts of the case were common knowledge and the potential witnesses had had time to realise the importance of their testamony it was too late.You have also to remember that the vast majority of the British Public had,at that time,unswerving confidence in the Police and the legal system.
                        Dave


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                        #18 23rd July 2006, 11:18 AM
                        cgp100
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by bobhinton
                        I'm not absolutely sure but I believe all those witnesses who testified Hanratty was somewhere else at the time didn't come forward until after Hanratty was hanged.


                        No, that's not the case. Several witnesses testified in support of Hanratty's alibi at his trial, while others who supported it had given statements to the police before his conviction.

                        Those interested can see detailed information about the Hanratty case, including the DNA evidence and the possibility of contamination, in the judgment of the court of appeal in 2002, available online here:


                        Chris Phillips


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                        #19 23rd July 2006, 12:45 PM
                        easy12
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                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Further to my last post and having read Chris Phillips's link on the Hanratty appeal,it would seem that the "Rhyll Alibi" only came to light during the course of the trial and was not given by Hanratty to the Police as his initial alibi.Thanks Chris for that informative link.
                        Dave


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                        #20 23rd July 2006, 12:56 PM
                        Stephen Leece
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                        Tim Evans and Baby Geraldine

                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Bob!!!

                        I thought I was the only one who thought that!
                        atb

                        larue

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                        • #72
                          Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
                          James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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                          #21 23rd July 2006, 01:58 PM
                          bobhinton
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                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Many thanks for getting this information.

                          So if I read this correctly, Hanratty, when faced with the possibility of being hanged, forgot to mention to the police when first questioned he had actually been somewhere else when the murder took place?

                          It sounds to me that someone in Rhyll seeing his piccy in the papers said ' Hello, I think I saw that chap in Rhyll' . Then lo and behold Hanratty suddenly remembers where he was.

                          I should imagine the reason why the police didn't check this story too thoroughly was they thought to themselves ' Well if Hanratty thinks it's not important enough to mention - who are we to argue?'
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                          #22 23rd July 2006, 02:01 PM
                          sreid
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                          Geraldine? That's what Christie wanted us to think. Funny thing, the two Evans' bodies were found together.

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                          #23 23rd July 2006, 05:01 PM
                          mayerling
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                          DNA and poor Jimmy

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Hi all,

                          I think that what is emerging is this - if Jimmy Hanratty had not been hanged, but sentenced to a long prison term his family might still be angry and trying to get him out of jail but even if they couldn't they could still see him (if he were still alive in the jail). Instead, his hanging leaves a really bad sense of loss, especially as they have certain fragments of evidence that they could point to that might suggest he was innocent of the murder and rape on the A6.

                          But I agree that the situation has become ridiculous in one sense - opponents to capital punishment can't have everything their way. DNA is being used to free people who were (supposedly) convicted by error. It has been in increased use since the middle of the 1980s (I believe). Many groups who are opposed to capital punishment advocate it's use. In the A6 case the government went along to see if Jimmy was erroneously hanged.
                          But nobody from the pro-Hanratty group warned to be cautious about possible contamination. That is because they were so certain of vindication.

                          Stan is correct - it is like moving a goal post after losing a game, and calling "Foul". The caution should have been shown to begin with. Instead, now I'm reading comments on the thread that DNA was science fiction in 1961. No it was real, but we just did not know about it yet - Watson and Crick's work was not known to the globe when Gregsten was murdered and Ms Storie had not been attacked and left a cripple.

                          I have an interesting proposition to make here: we can call into question all the DNA related cases (just like cases pegged on lie detectors) and force all those people who have been released to return to prison because the forces that supported DNA evidence are now rejecting it. I'm sure they will be very happy about that.

                          Or, we can look at this from a more-or-less equitable point of view. It's obvious that we don't fully know what the devil happened on the A6 that night even now. The evidence presented at the trial of Jimmy Hanratty, however it has been sneered at since 1961, was sufficient to convict him with a jury...and unfortunately he hanged. But we can treat it, not so much like Timothy Evans, but like Leo Frank or Sacco and Vanzetti. Massachusetts gave a posthumous pardon to Sacco and Vanzetti in 1977 because their trial was so biased. Leo Frank was given a posthumous pardon in the 1980s because (although his death sentence had been commuted by Governor Slaton) he was given insufficient protection in prison so that first somebody stabbed him, and subsequently a large mob grabbed him and lynched him. The Georgia pardon was not a recognition of Frank's innocence but an apology for failing to protect him.

                          With Jimmy we can do a similar action - request a posthumous pardon due to errors in the collection and presentation of evidence leading to a questionable conviction. It would not be a reflection on British Justice in total, but on the full justice of one case in 1961!

                          If that cannot satisfy everyone, may I point out that Jimmy's death was the last of a line of cases from the 1940s through 1950s (including Walter Rowlainds, Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley, Ruth Ellis, and even Gunther Podola - though he seems to have been guilty) that called into question the idea of executing people. Jimmy was not the last, but he was the straw that broke the camel's back. The abolition of the death penalty is a monument that he shares with the others. A dark monument, perhaps, but a monument nonetheless.

                          Jeff


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                          #24 23rd July 2006, 06:27 PM
                          rigby
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                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by mayerling
                          ...

                          I'm reading comments on the thread that DNA was science fiction in 1961.
                          ...



                          Come on Jeff, you know what I meant


                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by mayerling

                          If that cannot satisfy everyone, may I point out that Jimmy's was the last of a line of cases from the 1940s through 1950s (including Walter Rowlainds, Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley, Ruth Ellis, and even Gunther Podola - though he seems to have been guilty) that called into question the idea of executing people. Jimmy was not the last, but he was the straw that broke the camel's back. The abolition of the penalty is a monument that he shares with the others. A dark monument, perhaps, but a monument nonetheless.



                          Can I add the names of Ed Devlin and Alfred Burns ? Hanged side by side after being convicted for the of Beatrice Rimmer on zero evidence and with strong alibis. And in another Liverpool case there was Charles Connolly and George Kelly. Who were later exonerated by the court of appeal, fifty-odd years after Kelly dangled for a murder he very likely had nothing to do with. All four of the above named appear to have been victims of a notorious Liverpool Policeman who was determined to clear his patch of criminals by whatever means necessary.


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                          #25 23rd July 2006, 07:10 PM
                          cgp100
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by bobhinton
                          So if I read this correctly, Hanratty, when faced with the possibility of being hanged, forgot to mention to the police when first questioned he had actually been somewhere else when the murder took place?


                          He first claimed he had stayed with three men in Liverpool, but was unable to substantiate that alibi. He then changed his story and claimed he had stayed in a boarding house in Rhyl. (He had stayed at Rhyl the previous month.)


                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by bobhinton
                          It sounds to me that someone in Rhyll seeing his piccy in the papers said ' Hello, I think I saw that chap in Rhyll' . Then lo and behold Hanratty suddenly remembers where he was.


                          I don't think there's any suggestion that it happened that way round. The witnesses were tracked down after Hanratty came up with his revised alibi story.

                          I think on the DNA evidence it has to be accepted that Hanratty was guilty, but there are so many strange aspects to the case that I feel there may be more to it than meets the eye.

                          One of the oddest is that William Ewer, the brother-in-law of the victim, Michael Gregsten, apparently knew Louise Anderson, a close friend of Hanratty (the appeal judgment actually calls her Hanratty's girlfriend) - and press reports claimed that the police were alerted to Hanratty when Gregsten's widow saw him in a shop and "intuited" that he was her husband's killer. Apparently other reports attributed the tip-off to Ewer himself!

                          Of course, Gregsten was estranged from his wife, and was with his girlfriend Valerie Storie when Hanratty hi-jacked their car in a cornfield at Dorney Reach. It has been suggested that the incident was an attempt to frighten Gregsten into ending the affair with Storie, which went tragically wrong.

                          Chris Phillips

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Last edited by cgp100 : 23rd July 2006 at 07:18 PM.


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                          #26 23rd July 2006, 07:29 PM
                          richardn
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                          Hi,
                          The case against Hanratty D.N.A speaking is proven.
                          However common sense tells me that a experienced car thief would have a knowledge of the workings of a morris minor , a very popular car of that period.
                          Also why hide a gun that was responsible for a murder and a good attempt of a second, on the back seat of a bus when logic indicates that it would only be a matter of time before it would have been discovered.
                          Surely a boat trip on the Thames, or disposed of in hundreds of more realistic venues would have been more apt.
                          The attitude mrs Gregston adopted against Valerie Storie calling her my 'Friend' also was very commendable since she was having a full blown relationship with her estranged hubby.
                          There is much more to this case then people now accept as Case closed.
                          Regards Richard.


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                          #27 23rd July 2006, 08:17 PM
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by richardn

                          ...

                          There is much more to this case then people now accept as Case closed.
                          ...




                          I like to think that that's why I started the thread

                          Incidentally one of the official files on the case held at The National Archives (Kew) has gone missing. I hope that that's more due to the fact that it was 'out and about' in the run up to the appeal (and is yet to be returned) rather than because someone, somewhere in the system is trying to hide something it contained.


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                          #28 23rd July 2006, 11:30 PM
                          mayerling
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                          Science Fiction in 1961

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Hi Rigby,

                          I know you weren't that serious, but the comment sounded like it was serious.

                          Still I think my idea has some merit. We can't change the government's view on the verdict, but we might get them to admit the prosecution's evidence gathering was faulty. It's a narrow difference, but it might be worth pursuing.

                          I never heard of the other case from Liverpool. When did it happen? What happened to the Liverpool policeman involved?

                          Best wishes,

                          Jeff


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                          #29 24th July 2006, 07:35 AM
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                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          The Devlin and Burns case is from 1951. I've seen copies of many of their letters which they wrote to relatives from prison and they are harrowing (even including the line "...we've been fitted up just like Rowland."). That they were not even in Liverpool on the night in question is obvious and I've heard it suggested that the property-owning Liverpool juries were notoriously keen to send alleged thieves down regardless of the facts in front of them. The 'set up' in this case mirrors the Kelly/Connolly one to a tee and, again, much was going on 'behind the scenes'. Hanging Devlin and Burns side by side was as cruel as it gets.

                          The Policeman involved was called Herbert Balmer and he received a promotion and commendations; he then retired early into a nice security-related job on the Liverpool docks and left an unusually large sum of money when he died in the '70's. There was always suspicion that he was involved in organised crime and some of his police activities were 'paid for' by interested parties.

                          There's a good book on the Kelly/Connolly case by "George Skelly" (mentioned on the old Casebook forums) and I see that it now has it's own overdue Wiki entry.

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Last edited by rigby : 24th July 2006 at 07:45 AM.


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                          #30 25th July 2006, 02:46 AM
                          mayerling
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                          Devlin and Burns

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Hi Rigby,

                          Thanks for explaining who they were and what they crime was. Interesting that their letter referred to the Walter Rowlands case of a few years before.

                          In reading about the Detective involved, I am reminded of another one (not Druscovitch, Palmer, or Meiklejohn) from France - Inspector Bonny, who was involved in framing Georges Seznec, involved in the cover-up of the Stavisky Affair (and the death of that judge), and a full collaborator with the Gestapo in World War II. Only he didn't die rich - he ended up before a firing squad (there is a movie of his execution). If you want to find an equivalent to the Liverpool detective, look at James McParland - the highly dubious "hero" in the American "Molly Maguire" trials, and later in the Pettibone/Hayward trial for the murder of Governor Steunenberg. He did die wealthy, but from information I came across he was a nervous wreck at the time of his death.

                          Best wishes,

                          Jeff
                          atb

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                          • #73
                            Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
                            James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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                            #31 27th July 2006, 09:03 PM
                            Graham
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                            The real problem with the Hanratty case is that the prosecution was based to a very large extent upon identification, which is always subjective to a greater or lesser degree. There was no forensic evidence obtained from the car or the crime-scene, and it was only when DNA became available that Ms Storey's clothing and Hanratty's handkerchief (used to wrap the murder-weapon found on the 36A bus) took on any real meaning. Unfortunately for all his many supporters, the DNA evidence cannot in truth be contested. His supporters cite prosecution 'dirty tricks' (they were only doing their job, after all), police corruption (totally unproven in the main) and a weak defence (wrong - the defence-team was magnificent given the circumstances) and a biased judge (again wrong - Lord Gorman was scrupulously fair and in fact it was thought that his summing-up was in favour of the defendant). As a matter of fact, I well remember the Hanratty Case at the time, and to say it was sensational is an understatement. In addition, there were all manner of peripheral goings-on (Peter Alphon, Charles France and others) which right from the onset clouded the matter. Yet the truth is that at the time Hanratty was seen by the British public as the guilty man - witness the very few protestors outside Bedford Prison on the morning he was hanged and compare this small turnout with the numbers protesting at the time of Derek Bentley's execution. Some very influential people took up Hanratty's case and kept it 'alive' for years afterwards. And regarding the 'Rhyl Alibi', it was not uncommon for a defendant in those days to 'suddenly' remember, half-way through the trial, that he/she was somewhere else at the time the crime was committed. I believe such a ploy is now not permitted in the UK. I was personally 90% convinced of Hanratty's innocence until the DNA results, which really should have put the lid on the case. I would earnestly recommend that anyone with a real interest in the Hanratty Case (assuming that the 'standard' works by Paul Foot and Bob Woffinden have been read) to read Leonard Miller's 'Shadows Of Deadman's Hill'. Even if one ignores the recent DNA results, Mr Miller argues very cogently that Hanratty's conviction was safe. (His book was published by Zoilus Press in/around 2003). Mr Miller says what I suspected deep-down for a long time that James Hanratty simply went into denial.


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                            #32 24th September 2006, 09:45 PM
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                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            It's been a long time since any postings relating to this case, which perhaps indicates a general acceptance that it's q.e.d. and Hanratty was guilty - which on the basis of the DNA evidence I now believe. However, I've just re-read Bob Woffinden's book on the case, and it still amazes me how on the basis of the evidence presented at the trial that Hanratty was convicted at all. The prosecution case rested upon a rather iffy identification, and there was so much circumstantial evidence that it almost beggars belief. I rather think that the people who at the time were dedicated to bringing in a guilty verdict against Hanratty must have heaved an enormous sigh of relief when the DNA results were released.

                            Is it known whether Peter Louis Alphon is still alive?

                            Cheers,

                            Graham


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                            #33 24th September 2006, 09:58 PM
                            sreid
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                            It does look like Alphon was a John Mark Karr type with the added factor of looking like the suspect.

                            Stan
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                            #34 24th September 2006, 10:29 PM
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                            Hi Stan.

                            I think that throughout the recorded history of crime there have been numerous cases of nutters 'confessing' to murders. I believe that the police in 1888 had to deal with a load of these during their JtR inquiries. Can't even pretend to know why.

                            What absolutely astounds me about Alphon is the fact that he was on an i.d. parade in front of Valerie Storey, and all it needed was for her to pick him out and then it might have been him who swung rather than Hanratty. Quite literally, while he was on that parade, his life hung by a thread. He did indeed resemble Hanratty in a physical sense, but there the resemblance ends. What on earth induced him to his various 'confessions' (and retractions of same) over the years is beyond me. I get the impression that he was an extremely intelligent and manipulative person who for whatever reason got himself involved in what even without his presence was an exceedingly intricate and perplexing case. I don't think for a moment that he really had the hots for Jean Justice - I think he saw the chance to make mega-£££'s and went for it. Bob Woffinden did trace him (I think in the early 1990's) but he wouldn't discuss his involvement.

                            Graham


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                            #35 28th November 2006, 02:38 PM
                            ianincleveland
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                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            DNA may well show Hanratty is guilty,but he should have been tried on what evidence was available in 1962.The evidence presented then would tend to make one believe he was innocent.

                            But Hanratty was not alone........

                            In 1938 at Durham jail,a young man called Robert Hoolhouse was hung for a crime he 99 % certainly never commited of a 67 year old Mrs Dobson on the outskirts of Billingham (its not far from Middlesbrough).Hoolhouse,only 20 at the time he hung was advised by his own solicitor not to give evidence as the prosecution didnt have much of a case.His own partents were in court to take him home afterwards.He too had alibi evidence in his own defence to say he was not in the viciinity at the time.

                            It made no difference he still hung ,despite a massive petition calling for him to be spared


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                            #36 28th November 2006, 04:34 PM
                            Graham
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                            Evening Ian.

                            I thought this thread was dead - thanks for your comments.

                            You absolutely right that Hanratty should have been, and in fact was, judged on available evidence at the time. The judge's summing-up was favourable, and there was some astonishment in court when the jury returned a guilty verdict. However, Sherrard, Hanratty's brief, pleased with him not to take the stand, but Hanratty was convinced that if the court could see the type of person he really was (not a murderer) they would believe his alibi and acquit him. It didn't happen. Also, we have to take into account the shady way the police conducted themselves, such as not passing evidence to the defence which they were, strictly speaking, bound to do, and falsifying interview records with apparent impunity. We also have to take into account Hanratty's sudden change of alibi halfway through the trial, which did him untold damage - the prosecution were onto this in an instant and made the most of it. I very much agree with commentators at the time (notably Paul Foot and Bob Woffinden) that Hanratty should have been acquitted, but he wasn't, and DNA now shows that the verdict was correct, but the correct verdict was arrived at more by luck than sound judgment.

                            Unfortunately, once a person has been executed, that is that - but at least the Hanratty Case was used to good effect by the campaigners for the abolition of the death penalty.

                            Cheers,

                            Graham


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                            #37 29th November 2006, 11:23 PM
                            davida
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                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Yes I agree. Hanratty should never have been convicted on the evidence presented. We do know that the police held back evidence which may have been favourable to the defence (it was before the disclosure rules). But, nevertheless Hanratty was clearly guilty and so the verdict was correct. It is what I call The Lindbergh Syndrome - the police have an overwhelming desire to convict and manipulate the evidence to accomodate this desire. Not so easy now with disclosure.
                            Peter Alphon was last, known to me to be. living in Chiswick Montague Druitts final destination in life.
                            Best Wishes
                            David
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                            #38 30th November 2006, 03:50 PM
                            Graham
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                            David,

                            I don't think Hanratty was clearly guilty at the time - there was certainly a huge amount of doubt in some quarters. I think what did for him, and also did for Bruno Hauptmann, was their cockiness and sheer arrogance - there was a good chance that both of them might have been acquitted had they allowed their defence counsel (especially Hanratty) do their job the way they thought best. I read not long ago that Hanratty was fully aware of his guilt, but thought he had a cast-iron alibi, and arrogantly challenged the court to find him guilty - which the court duly did. His major mistake was going into the witness-box. Afterwards, it seems he went into a kind of denial of his guilt.

                            Peter Alphon was an amazing character - a complete nut on the surface, but manipulative and crafty to the nth degree. He also came very close to being in the dock himself, when he went onto the identity parade in front of Valerie Storey. Had she picked him instead of Hanratty he may have been hanged rather than Hanratty!

                            Bob Woffinden ran Alphon to ground some time in the 1990's and found him in a bed-sit (presumably in Chiswick) and as eccentric as ever.

                            Cheers,

                            Graham.


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                            #39 26th January 2007, 10:13 PM
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                            Does anyone out there have any evidence to the effect that Peter Louis Alphon is still alive?

                            I'd be interested to know.

                            Cheers,

                            Graham


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                            #40 27th January 2007, 09:43 AM
                            rigby
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                            No Alphons are the current electoral roll...
                            atb

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                            • #74
                              Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
                              James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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                              #41 27th January 2007, 12:12 PM
                              granger
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by rigby
                              No Alphons are the current electoral roll...


                              I am absolutely positive I have read he is now dead.


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                              #42 27th January 2007, 01:26 PM
                              Graham
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                              Hi Rigby.

                              Thanks for looking, mate. However, Alphon probably wouldn't have registered anyway.

                              Hi Granger.

                              Thanks for this.

                              No real reason for asking about whether Alphon's still alive, just my continuing interest in what I still think is a fascinating and puzzling case, DNA or no DNA. The big question is (to me, at any rate): did Alphon become involved accidentally or by design? If the latter, for what purpose? Don't suppose we'll ever know one way or the other now.

                              Cheers,

                              Graham


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                              #43 27th January 2007, 02:10 PM
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                              I always figured Alphon for an attention seeker but he could have also been a shill for the "innocent" crowd.

                              Stan
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                              #44 27th January 2007, 09:56 PM
                              Graham
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                              Stan,

                              Forgive my ignorance of American vernacular, but what's a "shill"?

                              Cheers,

                              Graham


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                              #45 27th January 2007, 11:33 PM
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                              Hi Graham,

                              A shill is a person who pretends to be a third party but is really in with one side and is there to effect the outcome through deception.

                              Stan
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                              #46 28th January 2007, 10:13 PM
                              Graham
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                              Stan,

                              Thanks for your explanation! I lived in the USA for 4 years, but never heard that expression.

                              I think you're absolutely right about Alphon. He was the first suspect interviewed by the police, and made the most of it in his cranky, crazy way.
                              Later, he was landed on by (amongst others) Jean Justice and Jeremy Fox, upper-crust rebellious types, who used him as a means to kick dirt in the face of the establishment by loudly insisting that Hanratty was innocent and mounting a highly vocal campaign to publicise their cause. Amazingly, Alphon was their equal in all respects and, in hindsight, made them appear foolish. I still occasionally re-read both Paul Foot's and Bob Woffinden's books on the case in an effort to fully understand the convoluted circumstances and coincidences that drew Alphon into the story.

                              Cheers,

                              Graham


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                              #47 27th April 2007, 12:37 PM
                              larue
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                              what a puzzle!

                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              hi All

                              the more i read about this case, the more puzzling it seems. i must admit i was suprised at the outcome of the dna test, as i had always harbored a sneaking suspicion the Hanratty was innocent of the rape and murder, but the dna result is hard to argue against. i read with interest the opinion that on the evidence produced at the trial, Hanratty should have been aquitted. i think i would agree with this.

                              what has always puzzled me, is the motive for the crime. to my mind there seems to be none. my own view, is that the jury were swayed by the entrace of Valerie Storie, in a wheelchair. imho, such a sight would have had a profound effect, and pre-disposed the jury in Valerie's favour.

                              what does not sit well with me, is that Hanratty, known to be a petty though non-violent villain, would commit a seemingly motiveless murder, then [assuming i am correctly understanding some of the reports i have read] order Valerie into the back of the Morris Minor in order to rape her, apparently leaving her knickers in place, so that his semen would stain them, then fire five shots at her from close range, and leave her for dead. this was a particularly savage and callous crime.

                              another thing i have never understood, is how come a smartly dressed man, carrying a gun, came upon the car in which the lovers sat? was this pre-meditated or happenstance?

                              i suppose, at the end of the day, one must just say the dna test closes the case, and there's and end of it, but, with me doubt remains.

                              i have recently ordered some of the more well known books about this case from the local library, so maybe these will answer my questions

                              regards

                              larue


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                              #48 27th April 2007, 02:08 PM
                              Mrsperfect
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                              My Mother always thought Hanratty was innocent (because she's Irish and he's half Irish I think) but I alway felt that he was a professional criminal and a nasty man, so who cares?

                              I know, it's good that I wasn't on the jury but I don't lose any sleep over this sort of humanity! I know it wouldn't be repriprocal!

                              Regards,

                              Eileen


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                              #49 27th April 2007, 02:40 PM
                              the owl
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                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              Who is a nasty man? Its subjective - for example people may say that John Howard is a nasty man and indeed Tony Blair. I think to dismiss someone and de facto say he deserved to be executed is rather too much. The social situation that Hanratty found himself in in the 1960s may have led to a predisposition towards thieving - therefore, without being a bleeding heart liberal, per chance he gravitated towards a life of crime without consciously making that decision. Perhaps you should think that possibly suspects may be innocent and, moreover, consider that contamination exists when old exhibits are lost and then somehow found together - eg Hanratty's clothes and Miss Storrie's undergarments.

                              Anyway, just an observation.

                              Up the Owls!


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                              #50 27th April 2007, 02:59 PM
                              larue
                              Police Constable Join Date: Apr 2007
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Mrsperfect
                              but I alway felt that he was a professional criminal and a nasty man, so who cares?


                              everybody should care! maybe not about the individuals concerned, that's personal opinion, but certainly about justice, after all, there but for the grace of whatever god you belive in goes you. i cannot imagine a worse situation to be put in, than to be falsely accused of a crime i did not commit, then thanks to ineptitude and circumstantial evidence-to be found guilty.

                              regards

                              larue
                              atb

                              larue

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                              • #75
                                Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums > Ripper Discussions > Shades of Whitechapel
                                James Hanratty: Guilty ?
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                                #51 27th April 2007, 03:06 PM
                                larue
                                Police Constable Join Date: Apr 2007
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                                it seems strange to me, that the dna evidence seems to contradict the evidence submitted at the trial.

                                most puzzling to me though, is, assuming that Hanratty was guilty, what was his motive for this ghastly crime? having been in prison for burglary, he well knew the consequences of crime, but what possible motive could he have had for a seemingly random act of murder then rape then attempted murder? i just cannot see any.

                                i also wonder how he came to be in the same field as Storey and Gregson, in a smart suit and shiny shoes, carrying a gun.

                                the more i think about this case, the more question there seem to be

                                regards

                                larue


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                                #52 27th April 2007, 05:19 PM
                                sreid
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                                I loved it when everybody wanted the DNA test and then turned around and criticized it when it didn't go their way. It's like the Shroud of Turin business with the C14. If there's a problem with the test, tell us that before we do it; don't move the goal posts after the other side scores.

                                Stan
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                                #53 27th April 2007, 05:51 PM
                                jason_connachan
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by sreid
                                I loved it when everybody wanted the DNA test and then turned around and criticized it when it didn't go their way. It's like the Shroud of Turin business with the C14. If there's a problem with the test, tell us that before we do it; don't move the goal posts after the other side scores.

                                Stan



                                Agreed.

                                Looks like justice was done after all.


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                                #54 27th April 2007, 06:06 PM
                                rigby
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by sreid
                                I loved it when everybody wanted the DNA test and then turned around and criticized it when it didn't go their way. It's like the Shroud of Turin business with the C14. If there's a problem with the test, tell us that before we do it; don't move the goal posts after the other side scores.

                                Stan


                                Not true. In this case people were bothered about sample cross-contamination before the result was out. Before they were tested in fact. And the rag of turin is a totally different matter. I think a lot of people wanted the Hanratty DNA test to prove a clear miscarriage of justice had occurred and thereby also to prove the skewedness, crookedness and wickedness of 'the system'; the DNA result might only have strengthened those kind of feelings, IYKWIM.


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                                #55 27th April 2007, 07:18 PM
                                John B
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                                I remember this murder so well. I was at an impressionable age and secret trysts between married people were only for the News of the World. There was a strong rumour in mnay of the pubs along the Caledonian Road in North London (it runs from Kings Cross to Holloway Road) that Hanratty was innocent and that people who knew it and could prove it would not step forward. This stayed with me and my acquaintances for many years and the DNA results came as a big surprise.

                                There was little sympathy then for the woman; don't know why but some things stay with you. Don't know what to believe now.


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                                #56 27th April 2007, 07:35 PM
                                Graham
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                                Hi all.

                                Hanratty is a case that has interested me for years and years, to some extent because I can actually remember it (and that dates me!). I think first and foremost, anyone with a passing interest in Hanratty should not only read back through the posts on this thread, but also read the following books (if you can still get them):

                                Who Killed Hanratty? by Paul Foot
                                Hanratty - The Final Verdict by Bob Woffinden
                                The Secrets of Deadman's Hill by Leonard Miller.

                                The first two are most definitely pro-Hanratty; the third is not. Unfortunately for anyone who strove to prove his innocence, the DNA can't be argued with.
                                Yet there are still, to this day, so many unanswered questions regarding this case. Here are just a few:

                                Given that James Hanratty had hitherto been not much more than a petty criminal and (a not-too-successful) burglar, why did he suddenly turn to murder and what was his motive?

                                Did Peter Louis Alphon simply drift into this case, or is there something more sinister in his presence? Was he really just an attention-seeking self-delusioned nobody? (I believe he is now dead, so nobody can ask him now)

                                Why did Alphon put his life on the line by confessing? Had Storey picked him out at the ID parade, he'd have been tried for Gregson's murder and almost certainly he'd have been hanged.

                                How did Hanratty get to the cornfield, immaculately-dressed, and what, in the first place, did he go there for?

                                Why did he suddenly change his alibi half-way through his trial? (The police had good reasons why he did this, but it effectively destroyed his case).

                                Hanratty's case was taken up by two upper-class misfits (Justice and Fox) who had something of an axe to gring against the Establishment, and saw Hanratty as a means of doing so - they were playing with a man's life here. Why?

                                His legal team and his family (years after his execution) pushed hard for a DNA test, but when the Home Office eventually decided to carry out such a test, there were objections to its validity. There may have been a slight chance of cross-contamination of the legal exhibits, but only very slight. The analysis of Valerie Storey's underwear showed the presence of the DNA of only one person - and that was Hanratty's.

                                There were excellent reasons at the time why Hanratty should have been acquitted (the main one being the refusal of the police and prosecution to release information that may have assisted his defence) but DNA has shown that there was no miscarriage of justice. The trial judge summed-up rather in favour of Hanratty, but not enough, obviously, to convince the jury.

                                Personally, given Hanratty's odd personality and his long-time history of mental instability, I subscribe to the theory that he simply went into denial. He was perhaps psychologically incapable of facing the terrible fact that he'd committed murder, rape and attempted murder. Had he pleaded guilty, he might (just) still be alive today.

                                Finally, it has to be said that the major mistake of his defence was to allow him to give evidence in person. He came across as rather too cockily-confident of an acquittal, and that, probably more than anything, swung the jury against him.

                                If anyone had anything new to add to what we know of the Hanratty Case, I would be extremely interested to hear from him or her.

                                Still fascinating after all these years (apologies to Simon and Garfunkel)

                                Cheers,

                                Graham


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                                #57 27th April 2007, 07:49 PM
                                Graham
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by John B
                                I remember this murder so well. I was at an impressionable age and secret trysts between married people were only for the News of the World. There was a strong rumour in mnay of the pubs along the Caledonian Road in North London (it runs from Kings Cross to Holloway Road) that Hanratty was innocent and that people who knew it and could prove it would not step forward. This stayed with me and my acquaintances for many years and the DNA results came as a big surprise.

                                There was little sympathy then for the woman; don't know why but some things stay with you. Don't know what to believe now.


                                Hi John B.

                                There was little sympathy for Valerie Storey for the simple reason that she was an assertive, slef-confident peronality in an age when women were supposed to be anything but. And she has never, ever, wavered in her conviction that Hanratty was the man, even though she admits she saw his face only for a fleeting instant in the lights of a passing car when they were in the lay-by on Deadman's Hill.

                                The prosecution case was effectively based upon identification, one of the dodgiest types of evidence known to the law. As I said in my earlier post, all it needed was for Storey to tap Alphon's shoulder, and he was a dead man. But she didn't. She picked out Hanratty (at another ID parade) and she stuck to her guns.

                                It could well be that there were many people who, at the time, supported the case for Hanratty's innocence; yet, if there were, none of them came forward in support of him. This would tend to indicate that 'they' had no real evidence of his innocence or, possibly, they were scared of possible reprisals from the police. I favour the former.

                                Cheers,

                                Graham


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                                #58 27th April 2007, 08:52 PM
                                sreid
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                                Hi all,

                                We had a similar case here in the States where a guy named Roger Coleman was executed in 1992 for the rape and murder of his sister-in-law. He'd become a cause celebre for the executed innocent man and amassed a huge following of advocates culminating with him appearing on the cover of Time Magazine. Recent DNA tests showed that he was guilty but some of his touts still just can't believe it. I have to wonder about people who are disappointed to find out that an innocent man wasn't executed. In reality, they should have been outraged that this @$$#01{ wasted all their time and money.

                                Stan
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                                #59 27th April 2007, 09:01 PM
                                Graham
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                                Hi Stan.

                                The big thing about Hanratty was that, at the time of his trial and execution, there was very little in the way of outright opposition to the verdict and the sentence. Very few people gathered outside the prison on the morning of his execution. It was only after he was hanged that certain people raised serious doubts.

                                All manner of celebrities got involved, including John and Yoko Lennon, would you believe. Hanratty became a cause celebre only after he was dead and buried.

                                I feel sorry for his surviving family, who must still feel that he was innocent.

                                Cheers,

                                Graham


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                                #60 27th April 2007, 11:33 PM
                                Mrsperfect
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                                Where did Hanratty learn his skills?

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                                I wonder what sort of family he came from Graham, to have a charge sheet as long as your arm? Perhaps it was his family that taught him his craft?

                                Only asking!

                                Regards,

                                Eileen
                                atb

                                larue

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