a6 murder

[jimarilyn]

[QUOTE=jimornot?;80325]

thanks James - I think Viv Nicholson is still alive - fascinating info as usual

as regards Alphon's money that has never been satisfactorily explained - I certainly don't accept as was posted before that he may have won it in the horses.

Shame there has been no more info on Alphon's demise. I emailed Richard Ingrams at the link on his Oldie blog but no response at all. (http://www.theoldie.co.uk)

Incdentally, I understand that there is a Valerie Storie who is chair of a family history organisation around the Slough area. Would make sense that it is the same lady as she was a researcher at the time of the murder. I remember Steve posted a picture of her some time ago and she looked to be very relaxed.

All the best James

Viv

PS Do you think Liverpool will get through on Wednesday and how about the Premiership?

Hi Viv,

I knew that Viv Nicholson won the pools sometime during 1961 but wasn't aware until today that it was that on that particular Saturday in September.

Re. Peter Alphon's demise, I emailed The Independent newspaper about Ingrams's article to see if they could elaborate any further. Just like yourself Viv I didn't receive any response. You would think they'd have the common courtesy to acknowledge receipt of an email if only to say get lost or "no can do".

Re. Valerie Storie, I came across that website too some time ago. It could well be the same person. I remember googling her name one time and some results came up with another famous Valerie S, namely Valerie Singleton.
Out of curiosity, and wondering what, if anything at all, there might be in a name I accessed a couple of websites about Valerie Singleton.

On one of those websites four different Peters are mentioned (besides Blue Peter), namely Peter Purves (co-presenter of Blue Peter and an ex-lover), Peter O'Toole, Peter Bowles and Pete Murray (with whom she had a 4 year affair). I wondered at the time if this was pointing to some sort of sign/clue. Do Peters go for Valeries ? Maybe those men in white coats really are coming for yours truly.


regards,
James


PS..I'm still hoping and praying that Liverpool will turn it around tomorrow night against Chelsea. Stranger things have happened.
As for the Premiership all we can do is win our remaining 6 matches and hope United slip on a banana skin a couple of times. It would be great if we could do it this year to coincide with the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough.

[jimarilyn]

Hi Viv,

I forgot to add she was interviewed by another Peter, Peter Robertson. Kind of spooky eh ? So many Peters in one article.

For anyone who's interested, the article can be read at :-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1028228/The-truth-men-life-lesbian-rumours-Valerie-Singleton.html

regards,
James

[Tony]

Hillsborough

Hello James,

I know you are an avid Liverpool fan and yesterday must have been very emotional for you. It was for me too.
As you know I am a Sheffield Wednesday fan and the disaster took place at our ground. Although a season ticket holder then and now and I could have got a ticket for that match I didn’t because it was for the Liverpool and Forest fans.
I was driving back from Stockport, mad because I was late, and wanted to watch the game on TV. I was with my eldest daughter and we were listening to the game on the radio. Of course we thought there had been some sort of pitch invasion from the nature of the commentary but when we got home we soon realised the true horror of what was taking place.
Of course the newspapers and TV were full of it the next day and coverage was at saturation point. Some of the media conducted themselves in a disgraceful manner and I have never bought or read the Sun newspaper since that Monday.
I drove over to Hillsborough with my family on the Monday after tea and parked quite away from the ground and we walked down to Leppings Lane, the very terrace I had stood on for many, many years.
A policeman stopped me and asked me what I was doing and I said I was going to pay my respects but he said you will need to be a very hard man to look at that scene of scarves and memorabilia. I was not hard enough.

There has never been justice for the 96 and there should be without doubt.

YNWA.


Tony.

To everyone else I apologise for using this thread for this purpose.

Tony.

[jimarilyn]

Hi Tony,

Excellently said as usual. Thank you so much for expressing those heartfelt sentiments. You're a fine human being Tony. You're right, I am an avid Liverpool fan, although these days just an armchair fan. I had two unforgettable birthdays (1977 and 2005) when they won the European Cup/Champions League.
Yesterday was indeed a very emotional day for me too as you can imagine, I shed buckets. I spent most of the day watching LFCTV's coverage of the memorial service from Anfield and other related programmes (including the re-showing on ITV3 of Jimmy McGovern's 1996 drama "Hillsborough"). It was just my way of paying my respects to those 96 innocent victims, none of whom I knew personally.
Thank you once again Tony for your great empathy and may GOD bless you.

regards,
James

YNWA


PS. I hope my post will not cause offence to other posters on this thread, it's just that yesterday was a very special and moving occasion.

[jimarilyn]

Hi All,

A week ago today I spent about 3 or 4 hours in Rhyl, trying to familiarise myself with the geography and layout of the town and trying in some way to retrace some of James Hanratty's movements (or alleged movements according to sceptics) there on August 22nd/23rd 1961. It had been quite a few years (maybe a decade) since I was last there.

It only took me about an hour and 20 minutes to get there from Liverpool (and I'm not a fast driver). Not knowing Rhyl well I decided to head towards the Promenade looking for a legitimate place to park without fear of picking up a ticket. Driving up and down the prom a couple or so times I decided to turn into a road on the right where I spotted a good place to park. By a strange coincidence and sheer chance this road happened to be River Street, which is mentioned significantly a couple or so times in Paul Foot's book. This road I'd guess is about two hundred yards long and littered with large guest houses/B & B's (on both sides of the street).

I got out of my car to stretch my legs and crossed the road and headed towards the pebbly/sandy beach which was pretty deserted. I walked for a short while along the beach and promenade and took some photos (with my old mobile phone) from the sea front looking towards the amusement arcades where James Hanratty stated he whiled away some of the daylight hours of August 23rd. I returned to my car on River Street and had a quick look at Paul Foot's book which I had with me. River Street is mentioned on pages 237 and 268 of his book in relation to two possible sightings of Hanratty on August 22nd by people who lived in that particular street. The first sighting was by an old lady who said Hanratty called at her house looking for accommodation. It very much seems she was pressurised by her son not to get involved. The second sighting was by by a Mr Robert Fish who made a statement to the local police when Hanratty's pictures were shown in the press shortly after his trial. Mr Fish was convinced that the young man who asked him for directions was James Hanratty. It's very significant that two people claim to have seen Hanratty in the same street asking for accommodation. As I mentioned earlier River Street is full of Bed and Breakfast houses. It fits in perfectly with Hanratty's statements about his movements on the evening of August 22nd 1961.

One thing I do take issue with Paul Foot on is his statement (p 268) that River Street is a long way from Kinmel Street. It most definitely is not. From the bottom of River Street ( where it joins Wellington Road ) to number 19 Kinmel Street it is approximately 0.4 miles or about a six minute walk. I located Kinmel Street later on. Because of the one way system around Kinmel Street and because it has no street nameplate at the beginning of the road it's not easy to locate and it took some time to find it. When I eventually did I took some more photos, the light wasn't very good and I felt a little conspicuous standing there taking photos of a building that is now located at 17-19 Kinmel Street. It looks unrecognisable from the picture in the link that Tony recently provided. That particular photo was from 2001. I don't know what's happened in the intervening 8 years. Obviously a lot of modernisation. It is now a career's advice centre. Interestingly further down the road on the corner of an adjoining street is a pub called "The Windsor Vaults". Obviously Kinmel Street today looks a lot different to the way it was back in 1961.

For me Hanratty's Rhyl alibi (or should that read Real Alibi ?) keeps getting stronger and stronger.

Below is that photo of No.19 Kinmel Street, taken on April 9th 2009. Sorry about the quality, I'm a lousy photographer.

regards,
James

[mostfoul]

New to the forum here, or relatively. But what I want to ask is, how come this A6 murder is so often discussed on the forum?

[burkhilly]

New to the forum here, or relatively. But what I want to ask is, how come this A6 murder is so often discussed on the forum?

You need to spend a couple of weeks reading through the thread to find out why the case continues to be discussed. It's facinating. Some of the contributors are unbelievably knowledgeable, whilst others like myself just observe and occasional contribute.


Jimarilyn - that was a great post about Rhyl. Also just a quick mention about the Memorial Service yesterday - as you said a very moving and poignant service. JFT96!

[mostfoul]

Cheers, I will have to sit down and read the thread (despite it's length!!) next time I have a chance.

[Tony]

Rhyl today

Hello James,

That is very interesting about the present day Rhyl. We always went there for our holidays and stayed in boarding houses just like Ingledene. Who knows we may have even stayed there.
I do remember, and it must have been the summer of 1962, my parents dragging us round to Ingledene to look at the house where James Hanratty said he stayed. We must have gone past it on several occasions as I seem to remember the adults talking outside about it being the house in the murder case.
I also remember going to the pictures to see The Guns of Navarone in Rhyl the previous summer just as James Hanratty said he did. Maybe I sat next to him.

But what a change to the street, judging by your photo. I’m going to have a drive over there in the next few weeks to have a look for myself. I remember one year we stayed at a type of holiday camp there and it was over a bridge and a bit out of Rhyl. I don’t suppose that still remains. I remember the fairground very well.

Right that’s it I’m off to get myself prepared for my expedition.

Tony.

[reg1965]

New to the forum here, or relatively. But what I want to ask is, how come this A6 murder is so often discussed on the forum?

Welcome mostfoul.
.
This is probably the most posted to thread on the whole JTR site.

A good number of regular posters here believe that a grave miscarriage of justice ocurred in 1962 and still think that stands despite recent DNA findings.

Be my guest to read through the whole forum. Newbies cannot be expected to read everything before posting...it would be very quiet indeed. So why not jump in and give us an idea of where you stand on this bizarre case.

Someone should be able to answer any questions you have in the meantime.

See ya soon
Reg

[P.L.A]

Kinmel Street House Re-numbering

Hi Jimarilyn

The houses in Kinmel Street, Rhyl, were re-numbered in August 1967. Ingledene at the old number 19 became the new number 60. Ingledene is still there today at number 60, directly opposite the Windsor (well it was in December 2008 at least). It is all quite close to the old Crescent Road Bus Station, where the buses from Liverpool used to terminate. This is now a car park (I seem to remember)

The new number 19, on the opposite side of the road to Ingledene, was the Rhyl Conservative Club until quite recently. That is what you took pictures of.

Peter.

[Graham]

The new number 19, on the opposite side of the road to Ingledene, was the Rhyl Conservative Club until quite recently. That is what you took pictures of.

Odd though it might seem, it took this misunderstanding by James to draw me back to this thread - you beat me to it, Peter!

I last visited Rhyl about 5 years ago when Ingledene was no longer a guest-house. It seemed a bit run-down.

I've often wondered why the houses on Kinmel Street were re-numbered, but doubt it had anything to do with the A6 Case. I think (but may be wrong) that The Windsor is no longer a pub - I stand to be corrected on this. Didn't Woffinden refer to the re-numbering of the properties in his book? Or was it Miller? I know I've read it somewhere.

Cheers,

Graham

[jimornot?]

Rhyl & Hillsborough

Hi James & Tony

For what it is worth IMO it is perfectly right to mention on this thread things that do not directly relate to the A6 case. Hillsborough was a dreadful tragedy that touched so many and it was, by and large, respectfully remembered, rightly so. There does not seem to have been real justice for the 96 which is scandalous.

The notes on Rhyl are fascinating but as I have not been there I have nothing to add. The added (great) benefit it brought is to have Graham and PLA back (and also Rob a few weeks ago). A welcome to Mostfoul too - very interested in your perceptions as Reg invited. I think it could take you a week of intensive reading to get through all the postings here - and then you'll be hooked.

Good luck

ATB all

Viv

[Tony]

Hi Jimarilyn

The houses in Kinmel Street, Rhyl, were re-numbered in August 1967. Ingledene at the old number 19 became the new number 60. Ingledene is still there today at number 60, directly opposite the Windsor (well it was in December 2008 at least). It is all quite close to the old Crescent Road Bus Station, where the buses from Liverpool used to terminate. This is now a car park (I seem to remember)

The new number 19, on the opposite side of the road to Ingledene, was the Rhyl Conservative Club until quite recently. That is what you took pictures of.

Peter.

A very good morning everyone,

First of all a very warm welcome back to Peter (P.L.A) and Graham. Isn’t it funny how luck sometimes plays a part in different ways in different peoples lives?

If I hadn’t read Peter and Graham’s contributions this morning I would have found myself standing outside The Conservative Club in a couple of weeks taking a photo and wondering if the Tories had salvaged the green bath. So reading these two posts was very fortunate for me.

As for my old mate James (Jimarilyn); well you had better go and fill the car up again and retrace your steps once more. How very unfortunate.

Tony.

Hey James as you seem to have had as much trouble as JH finding Ingledene can we ask of you, now that Peter and Graham have become your very own Sat Nav, to knock on that front door and ask if they have a green bath in the attic. You will obviously have to explain that you do not want to use it but are simply carrying out some research. Good luck James.

Tony.

[Limehouse]

Morning everyone,

Just wanted to echo how nice it is to have Graham and Peter back on the thread.

Julie