a6 murder

[Victor]

Victor LCN DNA evidence may be 'legally accepted' in this country at the moment; that does not make it acceptable to me, nor to a lot of other people who have looked into the technique. It's accepted in very few jurisdictions, it's only promoted asd 'safe' by people with a vested interest in seeing it succeed, I don't think ANY conviction relying on it is safe, and I shall not be at all surprised when it ceases to be accepted here (which given the ongoing research, and the revelations which are constantly coming to light, will not imo be long!)

Hi Sara,
I think you'll find it's the other way round, more research will improve the technique which will result in more people using it or improved variants of it, and more countries accepting it as evidence.

If you think Woffinden - or Paul Foot - had any input whatever into the cover of his book, you clearly know nothing at all about publishing!

Art directors and 'marketing people' choose and design book covers, not authors (or even editors). It's possible they were briefly consulted on the subject - ie 'shall we have a portrait of Hanratty?' - but even that is a rare concession, and an author hads to be very 'bankiable' and well known to even have that much input. The actual design treatment would owe nothing necessarily to historical accuracy - they woudl just be trying to create an image which woudl grab the passing buyer in the bookshop. That is ALL.

I'm happy to admit that I know little about publishing, I'm an avid reader not a writer.

So where do you want to go with this? It is a fact that the eyes on the cover of Woffinden's book appear dark, you've offered the explanation that it's nothing to do with him, but it's his publishers touching up the photo to make the cover more aesthetically pleasing and eyecatching. Fair enough, but what about the photos of Hanratty inside the books? There's one of his parents standing over a framed photo that looks like the front cover, and guess what the eyes look dark on that too, so how come on a photo NOT destined for "eyecatching" purposes has dark eyes?

KR,
Vic.

[jimarilyn]

This statement was taken about 3 weeks after the murder. The image of the man's face however, must have remained very fresh in her mind at the time she helped Det-Sgt Mackle compile the identikit-photo just 2 days after the murder.

Sorry to nitpick here, but it was 3 days (not 2 !) after the murder that Miss Storie helped compile said identikit-photo. Pull your socks up man and get your facts right !!

regards,
James

[jimarilyn]

Hi All,

There's been a fair amount written fairly recently regarding whether the gun used to kill Mike Gregsten was a .38 or .32. calibre weapon.

I came across an article (a couple or so days ago) from the Daily Express of January 31st 1962. The first part of this article deals with Lewis Nickolls's (the director of Scotland Yard's laboratory) trial testimony from the day before. It's interesting to note what's written in the first part of one of the paragraphs .....

"The revolver --said to have been found on a London bus -- was handed to the jury."

Why, I wonder, would the writer of this article word the sentence like this. Why not just say "the revolver, which was found on a London bus....." Maybe I'm reading too much into this but it just seems rather a curious phrase to use. Was there some doubt about the revolver ?

regards,
James

[Victor]

Hi James,

I'm not sure about 1961/2 but these days the ballistics would be able to associate a bullet with a particular weapon. Of course it could just be a journalist playing safe as the phrase "said to have been" is another of those "allegedly" type phrases commonly used to avoid subsequent libel cases.

KR,
Vic.

[Victor]

Secondly when you pointed this out to him he then twists your reply by trying to right his original wrong by saying that you stated Kisko was dead before he was finally exonerated, which I know you did not infer.

Mr Kisko had been dead and buried for many years and his innocence was proven without any reference whatsoever to DNA.

Tony might not have intended to infer Kisko was dead, but he did.

KR,
Vic.

[Tony]

Tony might not have intended to infer Kisko was dead, but he did.

KR,
Vic.

Pathetic.

[jimarilyn]

Hi Tony,

A very succinct and understandable response to Victor's post. It's good to have you back, I hope you had a most enjoyable and relaxing holiday.

Things have been fairly quiet here on the Western front while you've been away. Several soldiers have gone AWOL, I hope it's only temporarily.

regards,
Private James

[reg1965]

Hi all
On the 28th October 1971, the then Home Secretary, Reginald Maudling refused to order an inquiry into the A6 Murder after motions put by MP's including Joan Lestor (member for Slough and Eton and successor to Fenner (Lord) Brockway).

His reasons were two-fold.

Firstly he moaned that after nearly 10 years a judicial tribunal could not come to a convincing conclusion based on peoples recollections of the time.

Secondly, he made it plain that he thought that Paul Foot, despite extensive research in 'Who Killed Hanratty', had not brought out any significantly new aspect of the case which had not already been thoroughly examined.

Mauldling wittered on; "Mr Foot has not had full access to all of the available material, and in some respects his arguments are based on premises that are not supported by the facts."

Paul Foot described Maudlings decision as "a scandal".

As for the passage of time argument, Mr Maudling is forgetting that DS Nimmo's private inquiry into the Rhyl alibi was only 4 years earlier. A good many statements had already been taken and were held by Scotland Yard. Among these were those of Trevor Dutton and Christopher Larman. The vast majority of the witnesses who gave statements for and against Hanratty were still alive and could have been brought before an inquiry to be questioned about their witness statements. Lord Russell of Liverpool quite rightly advised the Rhyl witnesses not to talk to Nimmo without their own independent witnesses present. Lessons of police shinanighans had been learnt from previous experiences.

As to Maudlings views over Foots book and its research, he must have passed over the pages in the book that concerned the Nimmo inquiry. DS Nimmo's remit was to interview all relevant witnesses but failed to interview both Mr Dutton and incredibly Mr Larman, whose statement was not made public until 1968, both of whom positively identified the exact day on which they said that they met Hanratty or someone meeting his description or intended actions.

Finally it is worth noting that if Foot had not had access to all of the available material then what was Foot not party to that made Hanratty's conviction safe? Nothing new that supported his conviction then has since come to light. It would seem absurd for the Home Office or Scotland Yard to withold evidence against Hanratty that had not already been used in the public arena to quell public concerns over the safety of the original conviction.

Were the government perhaps perturbed at the likelihood of being made to disclose documents, at an inquiry, pertaining to the involvement of the police, Dixie France, Peter Alphon and William Ewer in the whole affair?

Reg

[reg1965]

Hi all
My missus drew my attention to this a little while back but I was doing other stuff and put it to one side.
But I looked at it today and was shocked to find out about something called the chimera!

check these out!

http://www2.five.tv/programmes/extraordinarypeople/twininside/

(dont be put off by the picture of the pregnant man!)

http://www.katewerk.com/chimera.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Fairchild

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/118606.php

also a link to a film about Lydia Fairchild

http://www.geocities.com/mylifewithchimera/4.html

I would think from this that we don't know everything there is to know about human DNA!

Reg

[burkhilly]

Chimera

I was having a conversation about this condition a couple of weeks ago, because there was an articule in a newpaper/magazine that someone had read. I did know about chimera after seeing a documentary on the subject years ago. It just goes to show that DNA isn't infalliable.

I've been lurking for a couple of weeks now.............too busy in work....year end, new budget etc, etc. Now off for two weeks, so am catching up on my reading and adding to the thread.

Nice to see Sara and Tony back on board.

[jimarilyn]

Horizon Documentary on A6 murder

Hi All,

I don't know how many of you are aware but somebody (not me) kindly uploaded the Horizon documentary from 2002 just a few days ago.
It can be viewed on the link below :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3hTJMI-4C0

regards,
James

[reg1965]

Hi All,

I don't know how many of you are aware but somebody (not me) kindly uploaded the Horizon documentary from 2002 just a few days ago.
It can be viewed on the link below :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3hTJMI-4C0

regards,
James

Hi James
Great spot...unfortunately no sound on part 2 (of 5).

Reg

[jimarilyn]

Hi Reg,

I wasn't aware of that video myself until I was uploading a music montage of A6 related images on YouTube today (using Windows Movie Maker) and then keyed in A6 Murder in the search box and came across the Horizon video.

You're right, there's no soundtrack on part 2 (something about a copyright infringement ??).

Those chimera articles you mentioned make very interesting reading. I just wonder what a certain person will make of them when he reads them ?

regards,
James



PS. Good luck to the Gunners tonight.

[jimarilyn]

Mrs Margaret Walker's Alsatian

Hi All,


Further to fairly recent postings concerning Mrs Walker's Alsatian dog there is some brief mention of it on page 254 of Paul Foot's book.

Hanratty's Rhyl/Liverpool alibi continues to be mighty persuasive.

Derek....oops I mean Douglas Nimmo's 1967 Report was just another official whitewash but he was allowed to get away with it (even though Home Secretary Roy Jenkins sent Nimmo back to Rhyl a second time to investigate
alibi witnesses).

A very puzzling aspect of the whole Nimmo affair is why on earth were 250,000 words needed by him to report what he did ??

Anyone got a copy of that incredibly lengthy report by any chance ? I'd love to know what's in it.


regards,
James

[Tony]

Hello James,

I know I have said this before and I can only think I am too lazy to find out for myself but sometime over the years I have read about Mr Nimmo on another case which was a possible or definite miscarriage of justice. Can you help me, Sir?

By the way I have not seen anything form Vic over the last couple of days do you know if he is on holiday? I’m missing him tremendously.

Tony.

Hey just thinking about it where is Viv as well; surely they haven’t gone off together?
By the way James I remember you coming up with an extensive list of three males called Viv; the great Viv Richards, Viv Busby and our old team captain Viv Anderson. But what about Vyvyan from out of The Young Ones? Ahhh! Wrong spelling. Drat.