a6 murder

[johnl]

Jimarilyn

Hi JamesDean,

I too came across this particular piece a couple of months or so ago. Gives much food for thought doesn't it ? The police would never dream of protecting the reputation of one of their own (Basil.... no not Manuel's boss) would they ? Wouldn't be surprised if there were one or two or Freemasons somewhere on this thread.

James

Food for thought is it?
What happended to the pubic hair? It was obviously obtained from the pathologist who was part of this masonic conspiracy but where did it go? Not a very efficient conspiracy is it?
Where did the semen come from? The phial was already smashed by this time wasn't it?
How clever of Alphon to pull her knickers down to her ankles, knowing that she would not pull them up again! Presumably they were still round her ankles when she helped him to move MG.
Food for thought indeed!!!

Regards
johnl

[Tony]

Thanks James
Who was the freemasonic businessman mentioned?
I should state here that I was a freemason in one of the oldest lodges in the country (I left because I found it boring) and I can honestly say there is more rubbish written about freemasonry than just about anything else, including the A6 murder!

All the best
johnl

Hello johnl,

In Paul foot’s book he refers to the conspirator as Mr X. Woffinden goes further and names him as the central figure and Peter Alphon names him as William Ewer. We all know about William Ewer; well not everything but he did have plenty of dosh apparently and just maybe £5,000.00 of it found its way into Alphon’s bank account after the murder. Ewer then went on to have an affair with Gregston’s widow.
If you click on to my name in red at the top of any post a little menu drops down the second item is ‘Send Tony a private message’
I will send you both books when I have your address. Please rest assured although I am a supporter of James Hanratty I am a middle aged (Oh that hurt) respectable person and unlike Mr Hanratty I won’t be coming around to rob your house.
I don’t want anything for the books it’s my pleasure and in any case the same thing has happened to me during the course of this forum and somebody kindly sent me a book out of the goodness of his heart. My reward will be your comments; whatever they may be.

Tony.

[johnl]

Hello johnl,

In Paul foot’s book he refers to the conspirator as Mr X. Woffinden goes further and names him as the central figure and Peter Alphon names him as William Ewer. We all know about William Ewer; well not everything but he did have plenty of dosh apparently and just maybe £5,000.00 of it found its way into Alphon’s bank account after the murder. Ewer then went on to have an affair with Gregston’s widow.
If you click on to my name in red at the top of any post a little menu drops down the second item is ‘Send Tony a private message’
I will send you both books when I have your address. Please rest assured although I am a supporter of James Hanratty I am a middle aged (Oh that hurt) respectable person and unlike Mr Hanratty I won’t be coming around to rob your house.
I don’t want anything for the books it’s my pleasure and in any case the same thing has happened to me during the course of this forum and somebody kindly sent me a book out of the goodness of his heart. My reward will be your comments; whatever they may be.

Tony.

Was he a freemason?

All the best
johnl

[jimarilyn]

Food for thought is it?
What happended to the pubic hair? It was obviously obtained from the pathologist who was part of this masonic conspiracy but where did it go? Not a very efficient conspiracy is it?
Where did the semen come from? The phial was already smashed by this time wasn't it?
How clever of Alphon to pull her knickers down to her ankles, knowing that she would not pull them up again! Presumably they were still round her ankles when she helped him to move MG.
Food for thought indeed!!!

Regards
johnl

Hi Johnl

You're not by any chance the grandson of a certain Mr Swanwick or Mr Acott are you ? You still sound very much like an Establishment affiliated freemason despite your protestations that you left your lodge through boredom. Can you let us into any of their secrets/ ceremonies etc., or would that be more than your life's worth ?

[jimarilyn]

DNA ( Don't No Anything )

Just thought it was an opportune time to re-submit an old post (770) of mine :

Hi,

On the subject of DNA (of which I know next to nothing) a geneticist Dr. John Parrington of East London had the following to say :-

"I'd like to take issue with the report in the Daily Mail last week that DNA profiling has proved the guilt of James Hanratty, hanged for the so called A6 murder in 1962. Reports claim that a DNA sample taken from Hanratty's exhumed body last month has been matched with two samples taken from the victim's clothes, and that the chance of a mismatch is one in 2.5 million.

I'm a geneticist and work with DNA on a daily basis. I agree with the defence lawyers that the items of clothing may have been contaminated by being in contact with Hanratty's garments during the investigation. There are serious flaws in the way DNA profiling is being employed in forensic investigations.

Techniques are based on the assumption that by special chemicals in DNA, one should in principle obtain a unique "fingerprint" of each individual. Unfortunately, things are not so simple in practice as these assessments use only a tiny fraction of a suspect's DNA. There is the possibility of finding a match with a DNA sample from the crime scene, even if the suspect is completely innocent.

A key problem is with who is carrying out the DNA profiling. In a number of cases where convictions were made on this basis it has emerged that forensic labs were disregarding real discrepancies with the two DNA samples being compared. The convictions were subsequently quashed.

In Britain forensic science is not separate from the police, but wholly dependent on it. I would have great reservations about any claims made by the institution that convicted the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six on flawed forensic science."

[johnl]

Jimbow

Hi Johnl

You're not by any chance the grandson of a certain Mr Swanwick or Mr Acott are you ? You still sound very much like an Establishment affiliated freemason despite your protestations that you left your lodge through boredom. Can you let us into any of their secrets/ ceremonies etc., or would that be more than your life's worth ?

ALL the details of the "secrets" and rituals are available in books and probably on the internet. If you go to the grand lodge in London they will give you the grand tour and answer any questions you would like to put. The names of all freemasons can also be found, or if you would like to know who your local freemasons are you just have to stand outside a lodge on the evening of a meeting (you're not frightened you'll end up in a concrete overcoat, sleeping with the fishes are you?) and you will see them going in carrying their little cases.
Now that's what I call a secret society!!

Regards
johnl

[johnl]

DNA evidence

Just thought it was an opportune time to re-submit an old post (770) of mine :

ONCE AGAIN!
There was a presumption of contamination. This guy probably knows about DNA but he doesn't know the legal issues in the appeal.
The Hanratty team were given a piece of the knickers.
Divorcing the FSS from the police wouldn't solve the problem because the masonic conspiracy would find a way round it, wouldn't they

Regards
johnl

[reg1965]

Hi all
I must say that Tony's gesture of personally donating Foot's book to people on this thread who have not read it, is a most generous and genuine offering.

And on that thought let us think for a moment where this thread would be without Paul Foot.

I contend must wholeheartedly that it would not exist.

Through his investigations of the identification and circumstantial evidence and the Rhyl alibi (subsequent of the trial it was mostly his work), Bob Woffinden put together the case that lead to the last appeal.
The work that Foot did, at the time. did not bring great personal glories. It may be a another while yet after his sad and in my opinion tragically early, death that he will be proved right.

Foot is arguably one of this countries greatest investigative journalists. Not afraid to stick his snout in where others would get cold feet he would stick to his guns right to the end. His record will without little doubt stand the test of time.

Bob Woffinden's book had an advantage over Foot in that Bob was given great access to Bedfordshire Police records relating to the crime. The further work lead to submissions to the CCRC in 1997.

I think we should thank Foot in our own ways for keeping this issue open and accessible for all to comment on.

Reg

[reg1965]

ONCE AGAIN!
There was a presumption of contamination. This guy probably knows about DNA but he doesn't know the legal issues in the appeal.
The Hanratty team were given a piece of the knickers.
Divorcing the FSS from the police wouldn't solve the problem because the masonic conspiracy would find a way round it, wouldn't they

Regards
johnl

Hi johnl
Are you Peter Louis Alphon?
It just seems to me from the posts that you have made thus far, as an outsider, that you seem to show many of the personality traits of Alphon.
When Lord Russell of Liverpool was known to be publishing his book on the case he received incessant and at times obscene phone calls.
Your first and, as you stated probably your last post was to attack arguments put forward by me.
Am I posing a threat to you in same way?
You also say that you are a great disseminator, the meaning of which is to sow, like semen. So was it you who disseminated on VS's undergarments?
Also you plainly do not know anything about science because you have not brought anything new (bar slavish devotion to the court of appeals verdict) to this argument. You leave it all up to Victor (sorry Victor I have no truck with you in this post, but that is the case)
Also you state that you are an accountant and technophobe. I do not know, being a software engineer with over 20 years in the accounting and software business, how an accountant could be a technophobe! The whole industry depends on computers. This leads me to another reason that suspects me that you are Alphon and that is that you are, in fact, a turf accountant! (the dog racing lead me to that one!!)
If you are Alphon then Happy Birthday you old sod! (78 today..you've done well getting to that!)
Many regards
Reg

ps if you aren't Alphon then have a little repsect for Dr John Parrington. How do you know that he has no knowledge of the legal issues in the appeal!

[richardnunweek]

Hi all.
Can I ask a serious question.
Is there any body out there in 'Hanratty land' that seriously believes that Peter Louis Alphon, was the killer of Michael, and the rapist, and attempted killer of Valerie Storey.?
I do not, neither did the police, neither did/does Valerie.
We can argue this case till doomsday, but we must surely [ at least in the majority] accept that James Hanratty was guilty as charged, dispite beliefs from his family, to the contary.
It is a fascinating case, it hallmarks many debates, and asks why , why , why,?
Simple answer, it simply happened, and the night in question, escalated into one of the most senceless acts of the 20th century, and the only defence the killer could answer was 'It was not me, honest , please believe me'...
The honest answer is if I was on that jury, I would have said 'Guilty' .
How about you?.
Regards Richard.

[Steve]

Hi all.

The honest answer is if I was on that jury, I would have said 'Guilty' .
How about you?.

Me too!

[Graham]

Reg,

I have to say, for someone who claims to have a first-class honours degree, you don't seem to me to be the brightest star in the firmament...

...your post to JohnL is frankly insulting and demeaning.

This thread used to be a civilised forum for the discussion of the A6 Case. It has recently become anything but.

Can we please cool it?

Thank you.

Graham

[reg1965]

Reg,

I have to say, for someone who claims to have a first-class honours degree, you don't seem to me to be the brightest star in the firmament...

...your post to JohnL is frankly insulting and demeaning.

This thread used to be a civilised forum for the discussion of the A6 Case. It has recently become anything but.

Can we please cool it?

Thank you.

Graham

Sorry Graham
But have a look at johnl's replies to my posts..most of them total and utter nonsense with a good deal of personal attacks thrown in.
The bloke doesn't know what he is talking about. He even attacks Foot without having read his book on the case!!!

fairs, fair mate. We can't all have it just one way!

Reg

[jimarilyn]

Sorry Graham
But have a look at johnl's replies to my posts..most of them total and utter nonsense with a good deal of personal attacks thrown in.
The bloke doesn't know what he is talking about. He even attacks Foot without having read his book on the case!!!

fairs, fair mate. We can't all have it just one way!

Reg

Well said Reg. Compared to Johnl's aggresssive posts yours are very mild.

[Graham]

Reg,

Foot, admire him though I did in years gone by, was a crusading left-wing journalist who was seriously anti-establishment. Not that I hold that against him for one moment, but it was Jean Justice (who was also anti-establishment but for somewhat different reasons) who fired Foot's interest in the A6 Case. Foot did a huge service to the pro-Hanratty cause via his Private Eye column, and believe me, Reg, I do salute him for what he did - I've said many times on this thread that until the DNA analysis I was pretty well convinced of Hanratty's innocence. But we have to be absoloutely honest about this - Foot was inspired by what were, ultimately, political principles. Woffinden - another investigative journalist for whom I have the highest opinion - was moved to investigate the A6 Case for somewhat different reasons. Basically, Woffinden investigates what he views as miscarriages of justice. He has no politics, so far as I can tell. I have to say that if I need to make a reference regarding the A6 Case, Woffinden's is the book I turn to. Miller's book simply puts an opposing view to that of Foot and Woffinden, and although it is nowhere near as well-written as either of those works, it is nevertheless worthy of consideration.

I fully understand and appreciate the pro-Hanratty feelings that you and others have - but at the same time I hope that you and others equally appreciate and understand that there is an opposing point-of-view. I suppose after all the years I've had an interest in the A6 Case I could sit down and write a full-length work about why I thought Hanratty innocent until the DNA results - I'd probably only be repeating what others have said in the past, though.

For me, the mystery is now about not who killed Gregsten and raped and seriously injured Valerie Storie, but why. Not only 'why', but was there any evidence, suppressed or unreported at the time, that might suggest some degree of input - I don't like the word 'conspiracy' - from one or more othern parties.

Having said all that, I really enjoyed the debate regarding the DNA evidence, for the basic and simple reason that the technicalities of DNA analysis are way over my head. I have nothing to add to that debate, to my regret.

Cheers,

Graham