a6 murder

[Tony]

Hi Tony

I should add that azoospermia is the medical condition and the 2% does not include males who have had a vasectomy so the actual number of males not producing sperm in their semen will be higher.

Regards
James

Hello again James Dean,

Thanks for that although I doubt if anybody in the car would have had a vasectomy.

I see you have now become Paul. Whatever next, Fredrick Durrant?

Tony.

[johnl]

James Dean

Hi Tony

I should add that azoospermia is the medical condition and the 2% does not include males who have had a vasectomy so the actual number of males not producing sperm in their semen will be higher.

Regards
James

How many vasectomies had there been by 1961?

Allthe best
johnl

[jimarilyn]

I think Victor has already pointed out that a conspiracy theory is self-fulfiilling.
Your bible on this seems to be the book by Paul Foot, I haven't read it but from a quote of his posted on this thread and that of Woffinden(is that the correct spelling) I have spotted disinformation. As with just about everything else he did this was coloured by his politics ie "kick the establishment."
In the same position as Hanratty's father, mine would have always believed me but that doesn't mean that I was incapable of lying to him.
If you want to turn your face against the irrefutable facts then there's nothing I or anybody else can do about it.

All the best
Johnl
PS Were you serious about the impotent rapist?

Hi Johnl

I think you do Paul Foot a great disservice here. My impression of the man is that he was a very caring, passionate, selfless and humane person. His book is truly an heroic effort, he went to great lengths to try and unravel all the complexities in this case and get at the real truth of the matter. He had first hand experience of many of the people mentioned in his book, he spent years of meticulous, preparatory research before the book was eventually published in 1971. I'm surprised you have not read this impressive book
as I personally regard it as a must-read. It is extremely well written and he certainly doesn't shirk his responsibility of giving a balanced, honest and unprejudiced account of what he uncovered during his research.

As for the impotent rapist, I didn't say that he was impotent. Impotence implies that a male cannot get an erection necessary for sexual intercourse. I merely suggested that he couldn't or chose not to ejaculate inside VS.

[JamesDean]

How many vasectomies had there been by 1961?

Allthe best
johnl

Hello johnl,

I gave the additional information for the sake of completeness and to avoid misunderstanding. I have no idea how many vesectomies had been carried out by 1961 but as I suspect it's a trivial number, if any at all, I will not waste time researching that question!

Just having some lunch but I'll get back to you in due course. I admire your single mindedness re the DNA and the judges determination of the likelihood of contamination. In your view it is all done and dusted but we shall see!

Just one thing you should know about me ... I have not read any of the books (but they are on my to do list) so I am not a devotee of Foot, Justice or anyone else for that matter. I am open minded and gather information on this subject from many sources and rely upon my own assessment of the value of any evidence. The weight I give to any specific evidence may not be the same as you would apply but that's the same as would be in the jury room.

Regards
James

[Tony]

Hello johnl,

I gave the additional information for the sake of completeness and to avoid misunderstanding. I have no idea how many vesectomies had been carried out by 1961 but as I suspect it's a trivial number, if any at all, I will not waste time researching that question!

Just having some lunch but I'll get back to you in due course. I admire your single mindedness re the DNA and the judges determination of the likelihood of contamination. In your view it is all done and dusted but we shall see!

Just one thing you should know about me ... I have not read any of the books (but they are on my to do list) so I am not a devotee of Foot, Justice or anyone else for that matter. I am open minded and gather information on this subject from many sources and rely upon my own assessment of the value of any evidence. The weight I give to any specific evidence may not be the same as you would apply but that's the same as would be in the jury room.

Regards
James

Well Jimarilyn,

There have been some quite startling revelations this afternoon: both JamesDean and johnl have not read the books on the case.
To both of them I would say both Foot and Woffinden are a must for anyone discussing this case. I like your good self have all the books with the exception of Justice’s French version. To johnl and JamesDean these are excellent books I have read them both many times and they hold your attention completely. Woffinden says from the outset in his book that he is not trying to compete with Foot’s masterpiece but personally I prefer Woffinden’s book. I read Woffinden’s again at the end of June whilst on holiday and you simply can’t put it down.
I met Paul Foot and I can tell you he was a very funny and nice bloke and although very left wing his journalism was well respected by all political persuasions.

If johnl and JamesDean want to send me their addresses in a private message I will try to obtain copies of the books and I will send them to them to read. I will stand the costs.
I think they may well view the case in a different light and I would be fascinated by their views after reading said books.

Tony.

[johnl]

James Dean

Hello johnl,

I gave the additional information for the sake of completeness and to avoid misunderstanding. I have no idea how many vesectomies had been carried out by 1961 but as I suspect it's a trivial number, if any at all, I will not waste time researching that question!

Just having some lunch but I'll get back to you in due course. I admire your single mindedness re the DNA and the judges determination of the likelihood of contamination. In your view it is all done and dusted but we shall see!

Just one thing you should know about me ... I have not read any of the books (but they are on my to do list) so I am not a devotee of Foot, Justice or anyone else for that matter. I am open minded and gather information on this subject from many sources and rely upon my own assessment of the value of any evidence. The weight I give to any specific evidence may not be the same as you would apply but that's the same as would be in the jury room.

Regards
James

Hello james
The only issue I have with this post is that I would ascribe "open mindedness" rather than " single mindedness", but you may disagree!
As for it being "done and dusted" I am prepared to consider any REASONED arguement and am prepared to have my mind changed.
Your credentials re the books on the case are impeccable!

All the best
johnl

[johnl]

Hi Johnl

I think you do Paul Foot a great disservice here. My impression of the man is that he was a very caring, passionate, selfless and humane person. His book is truly an heroic effort, he went to great lengths to try and unravel all the complexities in this case and get at the real truth of the matter. He had first hand experience of many of the people mentioned in his book, he spent years of meticulous, preparatory research before the book was eventually published in 1971. I'm surprised you have not read this impressive book
as I personally regard it as a must-read. It is extremely well written and he certainly doesn't shirk his responsibility of giving a balanced, honest and unprejudiced account of what he uncovered during his research.

As for the impotent rapist, I didn't say that he was impotent. Impotence implies that a male cannot get an erection necessary for sexual intercourse. I merely suggested that he couldn't or chose not to ejaculate inside VS.

Did you deliver the eulogy at his funeral?
Ah! I see, if it was coitus interruptus he was obviously a CATHOLIC rapist!!

Regards
johnl

[Tony]

Did you deliver the eulogy at his funeral?
Ah! I see, if it was coitus interruptus he was obviously a CATHOLIC rapist!!

Regards
johnl

JamesDean and johnl,

That didn’t take long at all I have ordered two paperback copies of each book from Amazon.
They will be despatched to me by 3rd June. Unfortunately I am away for a week from 6th June so I won’t be able to send them to you until after the 14th June.
I hope you will accept this offer in the spirit it is being made ie I will get a lot of pleasure from introducing somebody new to these two great books. I have bought copies before for as little as a penny and I can’t remember how many I have given away. Everybody, without exception has been tremendously impressed by them even post DNA.

Tony.

[JamesDean]

JamesDean and johnl,

That didn’t take long at all I have ordered two paperback copies of each book from Amazon.
They will be despatched to me by 3rd June. Unfortunately I am away for a week from 6th June so I won’t be able to send them to you until after the 14th June.
I hope you will accept this offer in the spirit it is being made ie I will get a lot of pleasure from introducing somebody new to these two great books. I have bought copies before for as little as a penny and I can’t remember how many I have given away. Everybody, without exception has been tremendously impressed by them even post DNA.

Tony.

Thanks for that Tony. I should have mentioned in my previous post that I had already ordered copies as I want to read both books. However, I appreciate your kindness and I'm sure you will find someone else who has not read the books.

Regards
James

ps June?

[johnl]

JamesDean and johnl,

That didn’t take long at all I have ordered two paperback copies of each book from Amazon.
They will be despatched to me by 3rd June. Unfortunately I am away for a week from 6th June so I won’t be able to send them to you until after the 14th June.
I hope you will accept this offer in the spirit it is being made ie I will get a lot of pleasure from introducing somebody new to these two great books. I have bought copies before for as little as a penny and I can’t remember how many I have given away. Everybody, without exception has been tremendously impressed by them even post DNA.

Tony.

That's very kind of you, the problem is I am a complete technophobe (my computer repair man would say luddite!) and I don't know how to do a private message; I would also like to give something to a charity of your choice as "payment".
Do I have to wait ten months for them!

All the best
johnl

[jimarilyn]

Did you deliver the eulogy at his funeral?
Ah! I see, if it was coitus interruptus he was obviously a CATHOLIC rapist!!

Regards
johnl

Hi Johnl

From what I have learned about the act rape it would seem that in the vast majority of cases it is not about obtaining sexual gratification, it is much more about having control and power over a helpless victim and subjecting that victim to humiliation. I can think of one person who would fit that bill perfectly, a misogynist and loner who admitted he was very much afraid of females, and whose birthday indeed is today.

James

[JamesDean]

I came across this on a LibDem discussion about proposals to create a National DNA database. It was a reply to the main article. It's a very forthright opinion on the use of DNA by the powers that be, citing the Hanratty case specifically. Worth a read irrespective of whether it has any basis in truth or not.

When fingerprint technology became available to law enforcement agencies, criminals started wearing gloves.

Now that DNA profiling is available, they not only wear gloves, they make sure they clean up the crime scene and dispose of the body.

Has the crime clear-up rate improved since the development of DNA profiling? Anyone?

There are four key issues here:

(1) Now that it is possible to extract minute samples of DNA it is difficult to be sure how those samples got where they are. A wodge of semen in a rape victim’s vagina is one thing, microscopic specks in a car boot is quite another.

(2) DNA profiling is as accurate as the honesty of the Police, many of whom are corrupt (Robert Mark compulsorily retired half of Scotland Yard, but still he only scratched the surface), and two-thirds of whom are Freemasons.

In the case of James Hanratty, who was fitted up by a Freemasonic businessman with the aid of corrupt police officers, and hanged in Bedford Prison in 1962, some time after 1999 police officers placed a pubic hair from Hanratty’s underpants and semen from his trousers on Valerie Storie’s knickers to make it look as though Hanratty actually had been guilty. (There would not have been any trace of Storie’s assailant on those knickers, anyway, because Peter Louis Alphon, when he raped Storie, would have pulled them down to her ankles.)

Now, if the Police are prepared to plant DNA in order to protect the reputations of colleagues now dead, and the blushes of a Freemason then in his nineties, how far would they be willing to go to “solve” a modern crime, or cover up crimes committed by the state, or the rich and powerful (like the killers of Dr David Kelly)?

DNA should be treated like any other kind of scientific evidence - with care.

(3) Our DNA is our property. I object most strongly to having to surrender it to the state. I am not the property of the state, nor is any part of me.

(4) How far do we go? ID cards? A national DNA database? Satellite surveillance of motor vehicles? Micro-chipping of the population?

The arguments Laurence uses are the very same arguments that Hitler, Stalin and Mao deployed to defend their brutal, invasive, totalitarian policies. It was all for the benefit of the people, no honest, upright person had anything to fear from it, those who insisted on human freedom were enemies of the people.

Just you wait. When microchipping comes along, Laurence will be feeding us exactly the same bull manure. We can eliminate child abduction, extirpate such wicked things as truancy and underage drinking, we can even stop teenage boys masturbating if we feel like it.

[johnl]

James Dean

Thanks James
Who was the freemasonic businessman mentioned?
I should state here that I was a freemason in one of the oldest lodges in the country (I left because I found it boring) and I can honestly say there is more rubbish written about freemasonry than just about anything else, including the A6 murder!

All the best
johnl

[jimarilyn]

Hi JamesDean,

I too came across this particular piece a couple of months or so ago. Gives much food for thought doesn't it ? The police would never dream of protecting the reputation of one of their own (Basil.... no not Manuel's boss) would they ? Wouldn't be surprised if there were one or two or Freemasons somewhere on this thread.

James

[johnl]

Jimarilyn

Hi Johnl

From what I have learned about the act rape it would seem that in the vast majority of cases it is not about obtaining sexual gratification, it is much more about having control and power over a helpless victim and subjecting that victim to humiliation. I can think of one person who would fit that bill perfectly, a misogynist and loner who admitted he was very much afraid of females, and whose birthday indeed is today.

James

This is all very well but there wasn't another rapist involved in the A6 murder apart from JH, was there?

All the best
johnl