Locations

[Graham]

If Valerie had picked out Alphon, Acott would still have had to re-interview Galves to get her to change her statement to align with Nudds-2

Indeed, and had Alphon got so far as being on trial for his life, it may well have posed a problem for the prosecution.

Graham

[louisa]

Only when Valerie failed to pick out Alphon on the ID parade did the police return to the Vienna for further checks of the books, interviews with the staff, etc. I find it slightly remarkable that they appeared not to make any attempts to actually locate and interview other guests at the Vienna that night until Alphon was eliminated, but that seems to be the case.

So Peter Louis was in the clear....and then there was Justice....

Graham

But why would the police go back to the same hotel and expect to find another suspect? Can someone refresh my memory? Was it that the cartridges had been found (planted more like!)?

As for Jean Justice and his friend, they struck me as a couple of rich party people who had a lot of time on their hands. Befriending (and doing whatever else he did with him) Alphon didn't really serve an awful lot of purpose in the end. From the moment Jean Justice entered this convoluted story I just lost interest in it.

[NickB]

If Valerie had picked out Alphon, Acott would still have had to re-interview Galves to get her to change her statement to align with Nudds-2.

[Graham]

I wrote "night of 22 August" instead of "21" - slip of the keyboard.

I don't myself think that the Vienna's books had been altered - had they been 'doctored', when would that have happened? As I understand it, the staff at the Vienna seemed to confirm Alphon's statement that he had arrived at the hotel around 11.00pm that evening and had stayed there all night. If this is true, and I believe it is, then there is obviously no way he could have committed the A6 crime.

It was at this point that the police got hold of Nudds by the fundamentals, and treated him to the third degree until he made a statement that agreed with the police's version of events. Unfortunately, such tactics were by no means uncommon at that time, and in the case of a crime such as the A6 it is doubtful if the general public were over-bothered, so long as the murderer was caught. I would give (somewhat grudgingly) Acott & Co the benefit of the doubt here, and say that they genuinely felt that Alphon was the culprit.

Only when Valerie failed to pick out Alphon on the ID parade did the police return to the Vienna for further checks of the books, interviews with the staff, etc. I find it slightly remarkable that they appeared not to make any attempts to actually locate and interview other guests at the Vienna that night until Alphon was eliminated, but that seems to be the case.

So Peter Louis was in the clear....and then there was Justice....

Graham

[NickB]

And at that point there is an interesting twist in the story.

On 13-Sep-61 Galves makes a statement saying the hotel register shows that no-one had occupied Room 24 since 16th August.

As Woffinden says (page62): “However, after a closer examination of the books, it now emerged that the room was occupied. Someone called J. Ryan slept in Room 24 on Monday, 21 August, the night before the murder.”

It was one of the grounds of Appeal in 2002 that this delay was caused by the police trying to frame Alphon.

Appeal section 166: “Mr Mansfield argues further, that it is legitimate to infer that the hotel register had been altered to conceal the entry in relation to Ryan and that the defence were deprived of the opportunity to submit that the police were prepared to tailor the evidence to fit the theory that Durrant/Alphon was guilty, that someone with knowledge that Alphon was under investigation had planted the cartridge cases; and that the hotel record had been altered in some way.”

[Graham]

And how did anyone arrive at the ludicrous coincidence that the alleged A6 murderer happened by chance to be staying (on the night before the murder) in the same doss house as was the first police suspect, Peter Alphon? It was the police hunt for Alphon that led them to the Vienna Hotel, Maida Vale, where he said he stayed on the night of the murder

Following the murder, the police had absolutely no leads to follow up, yet Alphon was by no means the first person interviewed in connection with the murder. Following what was then quite normal police practice, Acott issued a general request via the media for any hotel, B&B or boarding-house proprietor to let him know if they had a guest whose behaviour was suspicious or abnormal. Today, such a move by the police would be considered very strange, but back then it was how it was.

Mr Sims, manager of The Alexander Court, informed the police on 27 August that he had such a guest, who was keeping odd hours and his noisy behaviour in his room was annoying other guests. The first time the police visited, Alphon (who had checked in with the name Frederick Durrant) wasn't in, but when they returned he was in his room and was asked questions including where he was on the night of 22 August. He told them the truth that he was at The Vienna registered as Frederick Durrant. The police told him to re-register in his real name and warned him to behave himself. With that Alphon disappeared from view. There was NO police hunt for Alphon until the cartridge cases were found at the Vienna on 11 September. That's when the police descended upon the hotel and started a desperate search for Alphon, who surrendered himself on 22 September shortly after the police publicly named him in connection with the A6.

The police had known about The Vienna since 27 August but had no reason to connect it with the A6 as they did not consider Alphon a suspect until the cartridges were found. Obviously, they checked the register regarding who else had stayed there on 22 August which is when the name Ryan was first brought to their attention.

Graham

[louisa]

Nudds would have said whatever the person paying him wanted him to say.

I have no idea why a jury would trust the evidence of such an obviously dodgy character.


And how did anyone arrive at the ludicrous coincidence that the alleged A6 murderer happened by chance to be staying (on the night before the murder) in the same doss house as was the first police suspect, Peter Alphon? It was the police hunt for Alphon that led them to the Vienna Hotel, Maida Vale, where he said he stayed on the night of the murder.

[moste]

Re- Alexandra court manager reporting Alphon.
Googled how many hotels in London : no exact number, but between 700 and 1500. And if we consider the massive reduction of B andBs since the sixties.
Then we're asked to believe that the police put out an all hotel and b and b alert,
For any odd characters they may have ,behaving strangely in the last few days,
And lo and behold someone comes up with Alphon.Wonder if he knew Nudds?

Another address.
The Pineapple Inn ,Lake End road, Dorney SL4 6QS.
Valerie and Mikes first date Dec.'57.

[moste]

The co-incidence springs from the manager of the Alexandra Court Hotel reporting Alphon to the police. Had this not happened it is difficult to see how Alphon would have figured in the case at all. You could also argue that Hanratty would not have figured either, as it was Alphon’s connection to the murder enquiry that made Crocker feel obliged to report finding the cartridge cases to the police.

A couple more addresses:

Alexandra Court Hotel, 330 – 340 Seven Sisters Road, London. N4 2PE

Juniper Antiques, 57 Greek Street, London. W1D 3DY
(there are two front doors at number 57, it is the one on the left)

Re- Alexandra court manager reporting Alphon.
Googled how many hotels in London : no exact number, but between 700 and 1500. And if we consider the massive reduction of B andBs since the sixties.
Then we're asked to believe that the police put out an all hotel and b and b alert,
For any odd characters they may have ,behaving strangely in the last few days,
And lo and behold someone comes up with Alphon.Wonder if he knew Nudds?

[moste]

If Alphon and Hanratty were really part of a 'conspiracy', does anyone truly think that, when asked where he was on the night of the murder, Alphon would have told the truth, as he did? I don't think so. It also confirms to my mind at least that Alphon was totally unaware of the cartridge cases that were subsequently found in Room 24. To bring the police roaring into The Vienna Hotel would have been tantamount to suicide. As Sherrard said, this case is literally dripping with coincidence.

Graham

He had no option but to tell the truth. The police were putting out the biggest man hunt ever, As soon as Nudds saw his ugly mug in the paper or on tv, he would be calling the cops without a doubt. Loved to keep in with the police did Nuddsy. Much much worse for Pete if he'd lied then Nudds stuck the knife in so to speak, don't you think?

[Graham]

Hi JPR,

don't know if you've visited the lay-by - I stopped there several times when on my business travels for a bacon sarnie from the eats van that was usually there. You'll know that the lay-by today isn't the same as it was in 1961 - the actual site of the crime was where the northbound carriageway now is.
Worth stopping off if you're ever in that neck of the woods, though.

Graham

[Graham]

If Alphon and Hanratty were really part of a 'conspiracy', does anyone truly think that, when asked where he was on the night of the murder, Alphon would have told the truth, as he did? I don't think so. It also confirms to my mind at least that Alphon was totally unaware of the cartridge cases that were subsequently found in Room 24. To bring the police roaring into The Vienna Hotel would have been tantamount to suicide. As Sherrard said, this case is literally dripping with coincidence.

Graham

[NickB]

The co-incidence springs from the manager of the Alexandra Court Hotel reporting Alphon to the police. Had this not happened it is difficult to see how Alphon would have figured in the case at all. You could also argue that Hanratty would not have figured either, as it was Alphon’s connection to the murder enquiry that made Crocker feel obliged to report finding the cartridge cases to the police.

A couple more addresses:

Alexandra Court Hotel, 330 – 340 Seven Sisters Road, London. N4 2PE

Juniper Antiques, 57 Greek Street, London. W1D 3DY
(there are two front doors at number 57, it is the one on the left)

[moste]

Indeed, and I've come across one or two, but I do seem to recall that someone had 'cached' all of them (if that's the right word...)



Well, yes, but of course if the cases were planted via the green space and the windows then this puts a whole new slant on the case. They could, of course, have been planted frominside the hotel which I'd have thought was the most likely - if indeed they were planted and weren't accidentally dropped there by Hanratty as he re-loaded his gun. As I believe. It was only sheer coincidence that led to their discovery - they could well have laid there in Room 24 for months before they were found.

Graham

This last sentence set me to thinking .
Is it not the case that Hanratty was sent to The Vienna from the Broadway head hotel ,as they were too busy to take him there.And is it not the case that Alphon had to accept the bigger room at a higher price, unless a smaller room became available ,which fortunately due to a cancellation became the case.
I'm thinking, if you follow me so far,that business if not booming,was doing very well,thank you very much. The very idea that room 24 would have lay empty for long is a non starter. Incidently Wasn't Alphon advised due to the rental climate at present, he may have to share the room .
Someone just made a comment while I was typing "Are you telling me that Alphon and Hanratty shared Accomodation in the same hotel, 24 hours apart,and we're both taken to task ,over the A6 crime?and people think that's just a coincidence,and that apparently they didn't know each other?

[JPR1975]

Hi Nick,

did you post a while back that the photo collection posted on this Forum by 'Steve', prior to the crash, is still available? If so, how do we find it?

For JPR's info, Steve posted a large number of quality shots of many of the key places in the A6 story, including the Frances' residence, shots of Scotland Road, and many more.

Like you, JPR, over the years I visited quite a few of the key sites, including parking at Taplow Station and then walking along Marsh Lane to The Field. This was about 25 years ago if I recall correctly. I also had a look at where The Old Station Inn used to be. Not massively interesting, in all honesty, but good for soaking up some atmos!

When you went along Sutherland Avenue, what was No 158? Not still The Vienna, presumably?

Graham

Thanks Graham

I remember seeing that entry by Steve when I was just a viewer of this site, but I have recently just joined.

As mentioned above, Sutherland Avenue looked a very nice road (a shortish walk form Lord's cricket ground) and looked like they were individual flats now.

The same day I also got the 36A Bus.

When in Rhyl, I found Ingledene (although I think the road's house umbers had changed) and very near the train station, you can see how someone would end up there after arriving by train, there are some shops/pun opposite, one of which I guess waqs the bookies where the man in the book said he had put up distinctive signage (although not there now). I also stayed in the Westminster Hotel Rhyl, which I found out afterwards is where Paul foot/Hanratty Family used years after when appealing for witnesses etc.

Thanks

JPR