James Camb - "The Porthole Case"

[Graham]

Gaye wasn't in Camb's cabin though, Graham. He was in hers, in a quite different part of the ship, and the question of how he inveigled his way into her cabin (or was invited) formed a substantial part of the trial.

As for the polls, well they are just a bit of fun, aren't they? A man's life doesn't depend upon the verdict and I'm sure (at least hope) that if we were on a real life jury at a murder trial we'd all try our best to come to the right decision.

I enjoyed this book. I'd only read about the Porthole murder briefly before and this had a great deal of information I found interesting.

Hi Rosella,

yeah, you're right about the polls - I've got the post-Christmas miseries, that's all. Take no notice.

The Camb Case is one I've read very little about, so forgive my mistake re: the cabin. He seemed a proper nasty piece of work.

Graham

[Mayerling]

I think I have to go along with GUT regarding polls....too much possibility of something like "oooh, I didn't like his face", or "she looked a bit too sneaky for me"; things along those lines.

As far as Camb is concerned, he did try the good old tactic of corpus delecti, as attempted by Haig the Acid-Bath Murderer some years later, and who, like Camb, found it a somewhat rocky defence. Frankly, if the woman was known to be in Camb's cabin, did not emerge and was not seen again during the rest of the voyage, did folk expect her to have thrown herself out of the port-hole? Camb was incredibly lucky to get away with this, and there is no doubt in my mind that he did her in. As to the rather macabre suggestion that she she 'still alive' as she was shoved through the port-hole, well, who apart from Camb would know? And would he say? Not very likely......

Graham

Hi Graham,

From what I've read about Haigh, his idea seemed (to him, anyway) fool-proof because he misunderstood the term "corpus delicti" to mean having the actual corpse available to look at. He did not realize it could be traces of the corpse (as it turned out there still were, including false teeth of the victim). He was also far too cool and flippant regarding the grim situation, when pieces of Mrs. Durand-Deacon's jewelry and her fur coat showed up that were traceable to his possession (and people knew he was going to see her that last day anyone else saw her). His behavior reminds one of other overly confident "perfect murder killers" like Rouse, who willingly talked about his huge number of sexual conquests as his harem. Haigh apparently turned his modus operandi into a joke, when his paddy wagon to court got into a traffic jam, by suggesting he had a way to make the offending horse causing it to disappear!!

Haigh also tried to make his killing (later revealed to be the latest of a series going back to the early 1940s) into proof of being mentally unbalanced. He told of dreams with cross like trees leaking blood, and of drinking blood and urine from his victims. One book I actually have read suggested that Haigh might be considered the last "vampire" hanged in England. As the Attorney General, Sir Hartley Shawcross, said in his summation Haigh was bad not mad. Every killing he made that was proved to have been done increased his immediate bank account.

Jeff

[Rosella]

Gaye wasn't in Camb's cabin though, Graham. He was in hers, in a quite different part of the ship, and the question of how he inveigled his way into her cabin (or was invited) formed a substantial part of the trial.

As for the polls, well they are just a bit of fun, aren't they? A man's life doesn't depend upon the verdict and I'm sure (at least hope) that if we were on a real life jury at a murder trial we'd all try our best to come to the right decision.

I enjoyed this book. I'd only read about the Porthole murder briefly before and this had a great deal of information I found interesting.

[Graham]

I think I have to go along with GUT regarding polls....too much possibility of something like "oooh, I didn't like his face", or "she looked a bit too sneaky for me"; things along those lines.

As far as Camb is concerned, he did try the good old tactic of corpus delecti, as attempted by Haig the Acid-Bath Murderer some years later, and who, like Camb, found it a somewhat rocky defence. Frankly, if the woman was known to be in Camb's cabin, did not emerge and was not seen again during the rest of the voyage, did folk expect her to have thrown herself out of the port-hole? Camb was incredibly lucky to get away with this, and there is no doubt in my mind that he did her in. As to the rather macabre suggestion that she she 'still alive' as she was shoved through the port-hole, well, who apart from Camb would know? And would he say? Not very likely......

Graham

[GUT]

Hi GUT - that's fair enough although I suspect you've just walked into an advert for ColdCase's book!

Best regards,
OneRound

Seems like it.

[OneRound]

Unfortunately I don't place much weight on these type of Polls.

I get asked all the time, "What o you think bout X case" "was it the right verdict" "Wasn't the sentence light/heavy?" etc

My answer is invariably "Without seeing ALL the evidence it's impossible to say".

Hi GUT - that's fair enough although I suspect you've just walked into an advert for ColdCase's book!

Best regards,
OneRound

[GUT]

Unfortunately I don't place much weight on these type of Polls.

I get asked all the time, "What o you think bout X case" "was it the right verdict" "Wasn't the sentence light/heavy?" etc

My answer is invariably "Without seeing ALL the evidence it's impossible to say".

[ColdCaseJury]

Current Verdict

The current verdict of the Cold Case Jury is that 70% believe it was a case of murder.

This may change as more verdicts are polled

Antony Matthew Brown
Author of Death of an Actress

[ColdCaseJury]

Hi,

Whether or not Camb actually killed her is open to consideration. What I think is not open to consideration is that he was a sexual predator... Just a point on the legal issue. A prosecutor must prove ... to the jury's satisfaction ..... beyond a reasonable doubt.

Thanks for your comment. In my book I publish for the first time the actual affidavits of women who allege they were molested by Camb. It makes interesting (but perhaps disturbing) reading.

Many commentators believe that, despite the original jury's verdict, there was a reasonable doubt whether Camb murdered Gay Gibson. For the Cold Case Jury, however, I always ask the reader to decide what most likely happened after presenting all the evidence. At the moment the verdict of the Cold Case Jury is that James Camb most likely murdered Gay Gibson.

[Hatchett]

Hi,

Whether or not Camb actually killed her is open to consideration. What I think is not open to consideration is that he was a sexual predator, and if he she died as a result of his possible "forced" sexual activity, in my book he is still to blame. If not then why then force her body through the porthole into the sea.

I read somewhere (I cannot remember where at the moment although I will try and track it down) that she might not have been dead when he forced her out into the open sea. (A horrible thought.)

I also read somewhere that after he was eventually released from prison he sexually molested an underaged child.

If so, a really nasty piece of work.

Just a point on the legal issue. A prosecutor must prove ... to the jury's satisfaction ..... beyond a reasonable doubt.

But all the ame best wishes for the book.

Kind regards.

[ColdCaseJury]

I have read your very interesting book, Cold Case Jury, and have delivered my verdict. I've come to the conclusion that, dark as the case was against Camb, he was no murderer.

Thank you! It will be interesting to see how many agree with you.

[Rosella]

I have read your very interesting book, Cold Case Jury, and have delivered my verdict. I've come to the conclusion that, dark as the case was against Camb, he was no murderer.

I feel there may have been a slightly different scenario in the cabin prior to Gay's death in that Camb may have made his way down to her cabin to try his luck, as he had with other young women and eventually Gay yielded. She may have been wearing her black pyjamas the pants of which were pulled down to the ankles, the top rucked up. That would account for their absence in the cabin after he had disposed of Gay's body through the porthole.

Camb's violence against the young woman on an earlier voyage gave me pause, however the evidence of the placement of the scratches on his arms convinced me to give him the benefit of the doubt. He seems to have been a most unpleasant character, though

[ColdCaseJury]

I did not know that Gay Gibson may have known Sid James. No reason for it to be improbable, but I thought James had been in the entertainment field longer that poor Gay.

Hi there Jeff. The source for Gay Gibson's affair with Sid James was Cliff Goodwin, the biographer of the Carry On actor. It apparently occurred in Cape Town in September 1946. One of the reasons that Gay wanted to return to England was allegedly to track down her (married) ex-lover. As I explain in Death of an Actress, the account conflicts with too many other facts about Gay. For example, from the trial testimony, Gay was never in South Africa during 1946. Does this disprove that the affair occurred? Of course not (as you know, we live in a world of inductive inference and deductive proof is extremely hard to come by), but more evidence is required to support the claim. Would an affair be probative? Yes. As I explain, it would confirm that Gay was sexually proactive (James allegedly described her as a "nymphomaniac").

This is one mystery among many in the case.

I did not know about Podejay, so thanks for that.

[Mayerling]

Carry On Homicide!

I did not know that Gay Gibson may have known Sid James. No reason for it to be improbable, but I thought James had been in the entertainment field longer that poor Gay. She was in for about a year or two before her death. Also she always reminded me of the then popular American movie star Veronica Lake.

There is only one U.S. homicide mystery that reminds me at all of what happened to Gay. It's not quite the same story. A woman named Cedarholm (who lived in Brooklyn) had an affair with a younger man, a member of the military of Yugoslavia or Serbia named Podejay. This was about 1930. Poderjay was a kind of outgoing, overly friendly type - the sort who usually wears down his welcome soon. When Mrs. Cedarholm vanished Poderjay was already on an ocean liner (my memories of the case are old, so if details are off I am sorry), and one of his pieces of luggage were a large trunk supposedly containing hundreds of razor blades (he claimed they were difficult to get in his section of Europe. He was in his cabin much of his voyage back home, and it was later wondered if he disposed of Mrs. Cedarholm by cutting up the remains and tossing them out of the ship's porthole. Although some justice was meted out against Podejay for another crime, he was never tried for the murder of Mrs. Cedarholm.

Jeff

[ColdCaseJury]

Hi ColdCase,

I think or, at least, suspect that by illegally disposing of Gay Gibson's body, James Camb for all practical purposes changed an integral part of the normal trial process for the jury and put the onus of proof on the defence. Unsurprisingly there was not then enough for them to find in his favour.

Thanks for your post. I agree that the disposal of the body was suspicious and that, in the eye's of the jury, this might have shifted the onus of proof. Of course, legally it should not have; it was still for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Camb murdered her. For Cold Case Jury, however, I ask that the jurors (i.e. readers) decide what most likely happened. In a case like this, this is not as easy as it sounds because the evidence can be interpreted in different ways.