Jeremy Bamber

[OneRound]

Hi,

I dont think it was suggested that Bamber cycled in his wet suit, but put it on when he was in the house.

...

Best wishes.

Hi Hatchett,

I took that suggestion from this extract from Woffinden's article -

''He returned [to the farmhouse] on his mother's bicycle. The first thing he did on entering the house was to take the kitchen phone off the hook ... He would already have put on some kind of protective clothing, in all probability a wetsuit.''

I take it from this that Woffinden envisages Bamber either cycling across the countryside in a wetsuit or stripping off outside the farmhouse to put one on. I'm no supporter of Bamber but struggle to buy either scenario here.

Best regards,

OneRound

[Hatchett]

Hi,

With the best will in the world, I dont take it as that from the reading.

Best wishes.

[Hatchett]

He could have put the wet suit on in the garden or back yard.

[Fleetwood Mac]

The point to bear in mind in all of this is as follows:

Jeremy Bamber claimed that Neville Bamber had called Jeremy to say that Sheila had gone beserk with a gun.

So, it follows that either Jeremy was telling the truth and Sheila did it, or Jeremy was lying and he was the killer. There are only two possibilities. In the event Jeremy had not mentioned that supposed phone call, then I think he would have been found not guilty on the basis of reasonable doubt that some one other than Jeremy or Sheila had committed the murders.

As it was, Jeremy's phone call tale meant he had pretty much implicated himself.

Were I a member of the jury, I would disregard the modifier/silencer as it was discovered by another family member who stood to gain from the estate with Jeremy out of the way, weeks after the murders. Sufficient reasonable doubt for me.

I would also ignore things such as his obvious crocodile tears at the funeral, suspicious yes, but not evidential in my view.

But, the defence would have to show me that Sheila can be tied to the murders in some way, forensically. And, they can't. Not one scrap of evidence.

Sheila's finger prints are not on the gun. Despite Sheila being bare footed when found, and four people being shot at close range a total of 20 shots, a light fitting smashing all over the floor in the kitchen where the struggle with Neville happened, there are no cuts or blood on Sheila's feet; nor are there any blood splashes on the front of Sheila's night dress - only a smudged hand print.

And, none of the above takes into account the improbability of the small Sheila over-powering the 6' 4 Neville Bamber.

Verdict: Jeremy Bamber guilty, and I would love to know what the two members of the jury were thinking who found him not guilty.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Oh, and there is no record of any phone call from Neville Bamber to the police.

In the event such a phone call had taken place, then Jeremy Bamber would have been found not guilty on the basis of sufficient reasonable doubt.

As it were, the only known phone call was Jeremy's statement to the police that Neville called him, and in the end this was vital in implicating himself.

Sheila couldn't have done it because there is not one scrap if forensic evidence against her, despite supposedly going beserk with a gun and causing a bloodbath. So, this means Jeremy was lying about the phone call from Neville.

I would suggest that Jeremy had someone else do the murders for him.

[OneRound]

...

I would suggest that Jeremy had someone else do the murders for him.

Hi Fleetwood - I've wondered that. My post #26 refers.

Best regards,

OneRound

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi,

Pure conjecture, but I am interested to know why Neville Bamber, the killer and the only working phone were all in the kitchen. Apparently the phone had been moved from elsewhere. Everyone else were killed up stairs.

Jeremy Bamber wasn't stupid, and had a lot of time to plan this before the children stayed over at Neville's, thus ensuring that everyone in line for inheritance were murdered. I am positive Jeremy Bamber would not have killed them all, or had them killed, with no evidence linking it to Sheila.

So, I think the plan went wrong.

What may have happened is that the plan was to force Neville at gun point to ring the police and tell them that Sheila had gone beserk with a gun, hence the phone, Neville and the killer being in the kitchen in the early hours of the morning. At that point Neville fought his attacker.

After killing Neville, those/him panicked with nothing tieing the murders to Sheila, and did not think of incriminating Sheila with forensic evidence. The plan may have always been to force Neville to make the call, and in the panic the best Jeremy bamber could do was to say Neville had called him, which turned out to be a monumental mistake.

I don't believe the plan was ever to incriminate himself in the way he did; the plan unravelled in the house and backed into a corner he came up with something that hadn't been thought through.

[Batman]

And, none of the above takes into account the improbability of the small Sheila over-powering the 6' 4 Neville Bamber.

The defense argues that Shelia's mental illness could have resulted in a psychotic break. Didn't they have her doctor say as much? There was a lot of evidence moved around by the investigators.

Having said that though the most damning evidence against him I find is that he loaded the gun that he said Shelia killed her family with.... by his own admission.

[Fleetwood Mac]

The defense argues that Shelia's mental illness could have resulted in a psychotic break. Didn't they have her doctor say as much? There was a lot of evidence moved around by the investigators.

Having said that though the most damning evidence against him I find is that he loaded the gun that he said Shelia killed her family with.... by his own admission.

The police were negligent in their duty.

They assumed Sheila had committed the murders. Now, my understanding is that no assumptions should be made until the evidence is gathered, and all it would have taken, by someone not necessarily having a keen eye for detail; is one look at Sheila's feet and the lack of blood on her person.

The psychotic argument is mere conjecture and there is no forensic evidence to support this theory. Her husband argued that she would not have done anything to harm the children, nor the parents.

Were I a member of a jury, I would not have necessarily convicted him on the basis of loading the gun. Boiling it down to its bare bones, there is no forensic evidence linking Sheila to the murders, despite there being a bloodbath; and due to Jeremy Bamber's phone call story that meant it could only have been him.

As Jeremy Bamber claimed Sheila had gone beserk with a gun and had killed the family, then in order to 'fit up' Jeremy for crimes committed by Sheila, the police would have needed to have done a lot more than move evidence around.

They would have had to have wiped blood from Sheila and probably put a different night dress on her.

The reason why his appeal keeps getting turned down is because he doesn't have a case worth taking to court. No jury in the land would over-turn his conviction in the event the defence can't connect Sheila to the murders with evidence. Theories around psychotic episodes, who loaded the gun etc, are insignificant by comparison. Even Julie Mugford's statement means relatively little when considering the forensic evidence. There is no way out for him, but had he not made up that phone call there would have been - clearly he was nowhere near as clever as he thought.

[Batman]

So there is no defense answer to the absence of gun residue?

That's pretty damning in itself.

[OneRound]

Only one episode in of six so far but I would recommend the tv drama White House Farm to anyone interested in this case.

OneRound

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s an interesting case. I read one book a few years ago which left me with doubts about the verdict. I’ve just looked on the Bamber Campaign website and I’ve bought their Kindle book on the case for £0.99 (it might be a while till I get around to reading it though)

https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Whether he's guilty or not, it's a case well worthy of going to retrial, the police totally messed up the crime scene and the two call logs merit an explanation. And there's never been a great scenario for him getting from the farm to Goldhanger. But, sure as hell doesn't look like a murder/suicide.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There’s nothing conclusive at all but it’s interesting to note that Bamber passed a Lie Detector test in 2007 and he has also been tested by numerous psychologists who were unanimous in finding no hints of psychopathology. There’s also the issue of the blood found on the silencer in the gun cupboard. The jury were told that science showed that the blood could only be matched with Sheila when it turns out that it was also a match for a Robert Boutflour, a beneficiary of the estate and someone that regularly used guns at White House Farm.

I hope to get on to reading the book soon (after I’ve finished my Christmas present reading)

[drstrange169]

I was drawn to this tread because I thought Bamber Gascoigne had murdered someone!

Might download the TV show and see what it's about.