JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Abby Normal]

My TV listing shows Sunday 9/18 8:30pm to 10:30pm ET, and Monday 9/19 9pm to 11pm ET. The program is listed as "The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey". Also, if the Sunday afternoon football game runs too long, expect all the programs after it to be delayed accordingly.

Thanks Yom!!

[Wickerman]

My TV listing shows that TLC will air a 3-hour program called "JonBenét: An American Murder Mystery" on 9/16/16 8 pm ET. Is this the same as the one on ID (which I missed)? Both programs have the same title.

Thats the one I'm watching now, it's three one-hour shows put together.

[YomRippur]

Last night's film mentioned the 1932 Baby Lindbergh case at one point. And here the excellent 2013 PBS 1-hour documentary "Who Killed Baby Lindbergh?" featuring FBI profiler John Douglas.

[Wickerman]

As was olievera and Santa Bill. Both also pretty valid suspects IMHO although Santa bill was probably to old and weak.

The circumstances and coincidences surrounding those two suspects are a good example of why it is necessary to stick to the evidence and not be guided by conjecture.

If it was Santa Bill, then that might at least explain how the killer was able to get JonBenet out of her bed and down the stairs without making a sound, if he tells her this is a game and we must sneak out like little mice.
Most kids would do anything Santa asked of them.

I'm beginning to think the DNA might be a red herring.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I still think an intruder is more likely than a family member.

agree. and Karr is a loser-weird in a bad way, probably a pedophile and IMHO still dangerous. but not her killer.

That Karr moron was really hamming it up, anything to get into the spotlight.
The guy even claimed she was breathing lightly and he tried to resuscitate her, I guess he forgot she had duct tape over her mouth - dumbass!
He knew nothing, and did nothing, and couldn't even establish he was anywhere near Boulder that night.

[Pcdunn]

Dr. Phil says Burke is normal...

Did anyone see the interview of Burke on Dr. Phil in the last couple of days? I did not but I have heard others say that his behavior was rather odd.

...just nervous, and some people smile when answering questions while they are nervous. His statement came the day after the interview aired here in the U.S.

I've seen a clip from it which accompanied the response from Dr. Phil, and yes, Burke did smile when recounting how he heard of his little sister's death. I also understand why Phil also stated that Burke is not autistic.

I would say he is just a young man who led a sheltered life, being protected and pampered from birth, and who ended up in the spotlight after the horrible murder of his sister. I think *maybe* he sneaked down and got some pineapple after bedtime, but I doubt he did anything more serious.

[louisa]

This is a case that has always fascinated me. I've read most of the books about it and always come back to the Steve Thomas one as being closest to the truth.

People love conspiracy theories, and 'thinking outside the box' is all very well but the obvious tends to get pushed aside.

The Ramseys lawyered up the same day JonBenet was killed. They refused to talk to the police. If they were innocent they would do their best to help the police find the murderer. Why didn't they? Because they knew exactly who the killer was and it was one of their own.

At first I was convinced that Patsy accidentally crushed JonBenet's skull by pushing her against something, and then, thinking she was dead, tried to cover this by making it look as though she had been strangled to death. Then of course there was the crude attempt at making it also look as though there had been a sexual motive (the paintbrush business).

I thought John aided his wife as much as he could. Patsy wrote the note.

The rest we all know.

However, I now think that Burke may have accidentally killed his sister when they returned Christmas night, maybe larking about, perhaps he pushed JonBenet down those spiral stairs? and his parents covered it up in order to protect him.

They got Burke out of the house on the day of the murder, not allowing him to talk to police or anyone else, about the matter.

[Pcdunn]

The circumstances and coincidences surrounding those two suspects are a good example of why it is necessary to stick to the evidence and not be guided by conjecture.

Yes, certainly true in the case of Santa Bill. Although I was a bit surprised to learn of both the note promising a special visit on the day after Christmas, and that JonBenet had showed him the house from top to bottom-- including the basement storeroom.

If it was Santa Bill, then that might at least explain how the killer was able to get JonBenet out of her bed and down the stairs without making a sound, if he tells her this is a game and we must sneak out like little mice.
Most kids would do anything Santa asked of them.

I agree with this completely. Maybe Santa Bill got inside some other way than using the broken basement window. But, balanced against this conjecture, is the evidence that he was at home in bed. Perhaps, if he was involved, he only conveyed information about the layout of the house-- which is rather unusual, from what I've read-- and did not actually visit on the night.

That Karr moron was really hamming it up, anything to get into the spotlight.The guy even claimed she was breathing lightly and he tried to resuscitate her, I guess he forgot she had duct tape over her mouth - dumbass! He knew nothing, and did nothing, and couldn't even establish he was anywhere near Boulder that night.

I think Karr, aka "Daxis", was living out some sort of fantasy when he wrote all those details about his tryst with the girl. He could have seen plenty of details in the media, and made up the rest. My worry is perhaps he had, in the past, accidentally killed one of his child victims, and those details made their way into the fiction about JonBenet. Or maybe the guy is sick, but not *that* sick.

What do you think "S.B.T.C." really means? Just window-dressing for the "foreign national" story of the ransom note? Or some pedophile slogan like "Sexual Bonding to Children"?

[GUT]

I'm sorry but I don't buy the "They Lawyered up" so had something to hide angle.

[Pcdunn]

I'm sorry but I don't buy the "They Lawyered up" so had something to hide angle.

I have to agree, GUT. I think they were well-to-do people, savvy enough to know that parents are always the prime suspects in the case of injured or dead children, and just did the logical thing.

I don't quite understand why John suggested his friends, the very couple who had hosted the party they were at, as possible suspects in JonBenet's death. (Santa Bill, on the other hand, I do sort of get.)

[Wickerman]

...just nervous, and some people smile when answering questions while they are nervous. His statement came the day after the interview aired here in the U.S.

Exactly right, I did work with a man who had a similar 'smile' which became very noticeable when he had to explain himself. It was obviously a nervous response as the 'smile' demonstrates tension as opposed to a regular smile which is more relaxed.

[Wickerman]

What do you think "S.B.T.C." really means? Just window-dressing for the "foreign national" story of the ransom note? Or some pedophile slogan like "Sexual Bonding to Children"?

I've read that John Ramsey had been stationed in the Philippines, at the Subic Bay Training Centre, then others claim it might mean, Saved By The Cross.
Apparently, the Santa Barbara Tennis Club did make T-shirts.

I have no idea myself.

[GUT]

I have to agree, GUT. I think they were well-to-do people, savvy enough to know that parents are always the prime suspects in the case of injured or dead children, and just did the logical thing.

I don't quite understand why John suggested his friends, the very couple who had hosted the party they were at, as possible suspects in JonBenet's death. (Santa Bill, on the other hand, I do sort of get.)

I also suspect it may have been hammered into him in his training.

[louisa]

For heaven's sake why discount the most obvious suspects and go for idiotic 'pie in the sky' theories?

The Ramseys named almost every person they knew, even their closest friends, in order to put the detectives off. It didn't work.

Santa Bill for heaven's sake! This just goes to show what nasty people the Ramsey couple really were. In order to get suspicion away from themselves they didn't mind implicating even people they had known and trusted for years.

Either Patsy or Burke were responsible for the initial impact on JonBenet's skull. It was the garotting that actually ended her life and Burke would not have done this, it would have been one of the adults.

Patsy and John went on with their lives making money out of the death and not really showing emotion about the little girl whose life ended so tragically at their hands. Still blaming others, but I suppose that's what culprits do.

Is there anyone in prison who doesn't claim to be innocent?

I just wish that Burke would now come forward and tell what he knew, if only to clear his mother's name.

In almost every unsolved murder there will be people who like to sell books by dreaming up idiotic conspiracy theories. We should remind ourselves of this.

For my money the only book worth reading is the one written by a detective on the JonBenet case - Steve Thomas.

I would urge people not to bother with the self serving book written by Patsy and John Ramsey, not unless they like reading fairy tales.

[Wickerman]

The Ramseys lawyered up the same day JonBenet was killed. They refused to talk to the police. If they were innocent they would do their best to help the police find the murderer. Why didn't they? Because they knew exactly who the killer was and it was one of their own.

I think that if John realized the police suspected him, or Patsy, it is quite natural for them both to close ranks and say nothing. When the very people who are supposed to help you turn and accuse you, what would you do?

At first I was convinced that Patsy accidentally crushed JonBenet's skull by pushing her against something, and then, thinking she was dead, tried to cover this by making it look as though she had been strangled to death. Then of course there was the crude attempt at making it also look as though there had been a sexual motive (the paintbrush business).

I note you used the word "convinced", but now you are not?
I don't find anything convincing about this murder, all the suspects have both positive and negative points against them. None of the theories can account for all the facts that we are aware of.

I thought John aided his wife as much as he could. Patsy wrote the note.

Writing a ransom note for a kidnapping while the body is still in the house doesn't make any sense to me at all.

However, I now think that Burke may have accidentally killed his sister when they returned Christmas night, maybe larking about, perhaps he pushed JonBenet down those spiral stairs? and his parents covered it up in order to protect him.

An accident of some sort was my belief for a number of years but I had never taken a deep interest in the case. My knowledge of the facts was superficial in those days.

We've heard that maybe Patsy killed her by accident over bedwetting, and that JonBenet's night clothes were saturated, but I've also learned that her bedsheets were not stained nor were her leggings except for a small amount that can be explained by natural causes when anyone dies.
Which is correct?

Then there's the garrotte, made of parachute cord, of which no other examples were found in the house, but then another account says there were other examples of that kind of cord in the house.
Which is correct?

One report maintained that no experienced handwriting analyst ever studied the ransom note to conclude it was written by Patsy, then another report says the opposite.
Which is correct?

We have a number of contradictory reports in this case so until all of these contradictions are cleared up our theories are of little value.

[sdreid]

Here's the tally over on Websleuths after about 1500 votes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?8522-Who-Killed-Jon-Benet-Ramsey-Poll