JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Abby Normal]

Hi All,

It's the unusual length of that ransom note that must be suggestive of something, but what? Was it to buy time for whoever killed JonBenet, so the note's 'finder' would naturally be kept occupied in that part of the house while poring over it and absorbing all the information it contained before deciding what to do first? The emphasis on the girl having been taken from the house unharmed, and the repeated death threats if her parents called in the police or even breathed in the wrong direction, would have helped to prevent an immediate search of the entire property - for JonBenet or her supposed abductor(s) - and also explain why one was not made immediately.

If Patsy wrote it, she would have had to pretend she took the time to read it through carefully before reacting. If an intruder wrote it, they'd know the finder would waste their time reading it, believing JonBenet to be alive somewhere, not dead and still in the house. So the length and content could have been beneficial in either case.

If the length of the note was not a deliberate ploy by the killer to cause confusion, could it simply have been the product of a seriously confused mind, struggling to make the words look convincing in the wake of the killing? Either way, it doesn't really help to rule out either Patsy or an intruder.

Love,

Caz
X

Intersting take on the note Caz.
I think if it was written by an intruder, he wrote it while in the house waiting for the ramseys to return. Maybe his first intention was to just abduct her, but got the idea to ef with them more, or even try to get the money, while he was already in the house. But I agree, if it was an intruder I think he was seriously messed up-psychologically, and or on drugs/alcohol. Its a messy rambling letter.


If it was Patsy, it could reflect a panicked state of mind,and clueslessness of how to leave a ransome note. She also couldn't be ruled out as the writer and on a recent docu they show the letter and her handwriting and it does look like hers IMHO.

If it was Patsy, then I think it explains the length of time to find her body.
In the case of the police-well they were obviously inept and didn't have the experience with cases like this.
In the case of patsy/ramseys, its because most killers(who know the victim) don't want to be the one to find the body, as it makes a defacto connection. They wanted one of their friends or the police to find her, They were probably thinking-why the hell cant these police find her already!?

Also, what parents wouldn't search every inch of the house once they discover their child missing? I mean its not like her body was stuffed in a crawl space or closet or cupboard. she was on the floor in the middle of a room. and in the basement where one would expect the killer/abducter to make his entrance or exit.

[Abby Normal]

Did anyone see the interview of Burke on Dr. Phil in the last couple of days? I did not but I have heard others say that his behavior was rather odd.

I havnt. but on a recent docu they have friends and neighbors saying Burke was extremely jealous of her, a strange kid who acted out a lot, and even was know to have hit JonBenet on one occasion in the head/face with a golf club.

however, I think its highly unlikely he did it though I don't rule him out.
He seemed innocent in the interviews, the police didn't think he aroused suspicion subsequently, and bottom line-if he had anything to do with it, or even saw anything, there is no way the ramseys would let him be interviewed by anyone.

[Pcdunn]

Burke

Did anyone see the interview of Burke on Dr. Phil in the last couple of days? I did not but I have heard others say that his behavior was rather odd.

I have only seen a TV ad for the program. Burke says, "I'm not what you'd call curious", and smiles at Dr. Phil. Hard to tell without any context if that is odd or not.

Saw part 2 of "JonBenet, an American Mystery" last night, in which an observer stated young Burke does seem mostly innocent, but that his body language (curling up into a fetal position, etc.) indicated he was at least confused about something.
She also said he used the phrase "Not that I recall" sometimes-- just as his mother often did in interviews with the police. She suggested he may have been coached, by either the Ramseys or a media-coach.

I think Burke is likely the one who got out the dish of pineapple, given his prints were on the bowl, too.

[Pcdunn]

Helgoth

I looked up this Michael Helgoth, never heard of him before. Thankyou Harry D.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TKHL1CODMPECACJHN

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3538060/JonBenet-Ramsey-s-REAL-murderer-26-year-old-son-junkyard-owner-killed-death-claims-investigator-hired-child-beauty-queen-s-parents.html

If what is being written about him is true, why didn't the police show a little more interest?

Last night's episode of the three-part documentary discussed Helgoth and his death pretty well, including the statement by a friend that when he went to tell them he thought Michael had been responsible for the child's murder, the police waved him off and said "he's not the type of savage killer we're after".

The program also suggested Helgoth may have been murdered, and the scene staged to resemble a suicide.

Ultimately, Helgoth was dismissed because his DNA was not a match.

[Ginger]

I have only seen a TV ad for the program. Burke says, "I'm not what you'd call curious", and smiles at Dr. Phil. Hard to tell without any context if that is odd or not.

Saw part 2 of "JonBenet, an American Mystery" last night, in which an observer stated young Burke does seem mostly innocent, but that his body language (curling up into a fetal position, etc.) indicated he was at least confused about something.
She also said he used the phrase "Not that I recall" sometimes-- just as his mother often did in interviews with the police. She suggested he may have been coached, by either the Ramseys or a media-coach.

I think Burke is likely the one who got out the dish of pineapple, given his prints were on the bowl, too.

I've not seen the documentary, and have no real opinion about Burke as a suspect, but none of this sounds all that suspicious to me. If he's innocent, then his sister was murdered, and he presumably could have been, but wasn't, for some reason. I'd expect some confusion, insecurity, etc, regardless of whether he suspected his parents or a stranger. I really can't see picking up speech mannerisms from one's mother as suspicious in any context. I can easily imagine his mother hiring a professional coach to help him "act innocent". It's a terrible idea, but the kind of thing that I think would suggest itself to her.

[Abby Normal]

Last night's episode of the three-part documentary discussed Helgoth and his death pretty well, including the statement by a friend that when he went to tell them he thought Michael had been responsible for the child's murder, the police waved him off and said "he's not the type of savage killer we're after".

The program also suggested Helgoth may have been murdered, and the scene staged to resemble a suicide.

Ultimately, Helgoth was dismissed because his DNA was not a match.

As was olievera and Santa Bill. Both also pretty valid suspects IMHO although Santa bill was probably to old and weak. I'm beginning to think the DNA might be a red herring.

[Pcdunn]

DNA mistested?

As was olievera and Santa Bill. Both also pretty valid suspects IMHO although Santa bill was probably to old and weak. I'm beginning to think the DNA might be a red herring.

The third part of the ID Channel documentary aired tonight, and spent a good deal of time on the question of both samples of DNA, as well as why only four markers were compared, instead of the more usual thirteen, in the case of the "touch DNA"-- a good reason wasn't really given.

The highlight was the appearance of John Mark Karr, the schoolteacher who related via e-mail and telephone that he had "been with" the little girl when she "died accidentally", but who denied causing the death, nor putting her in the basement. He assures us someone else was involved, who knew the Ramsey family, but doesn't say who. Nor does he indicate how or when he met JonBenet, though he hints at the tiny tot pageant scene.

His story is surely the most bizarre of all of the strange elements in this case. He doesn't come across too well in the interview, with many bleeped comments and a sly, arrogant attitude.

He says he was there. The Boulder D.A. and the flawed DNA test say he wasn't. They let this guy go back to obscurity. I hope they keep tabs on him now.

The DNA should not have been the single defining thing to prove either guilt or innocence, I think.

[Abby Normal]

The third part of the ID Channel documentary aired tonight, and spent a good deal of time on the question of both samples of DNA, as well as why only four markers were compared, instead of the more usual thirteen, in the case of the "touch DNA"-- a good reason wasn't really given.

The highlight was the appearance of John Mark Karr, the schoolteacher who related via e-mail and telephone that he had "been with" the little girl when she "died accidentally", but who denied causing the death, nor putting her in the basement. He assures us someone else was involved, who knew the Ramsey family, but doesn't say who. Nor does he indicate how or when he met JonBenet, though he hints at the tiny tot pageant scene.

His story is surely the most bizarre of all of the strange elements in this case. He doesn't come across too well in the interview, with many bleeped comments and a sly, arrogant attitude.

He says he was there. The Boulder D.A. and the flawed DNA test say he wasn't. They let this guy go back to obscurity. I hope they keep tabs on him now.

The DNA should not have been the single defining thing to prove either guilt or innocence, I think.

agree. and Karr is a loser-weird in a bad way, probably a pedophile and IMHO still dangerous. but not her killer.

[Harry D]

It's absurd that Helgoth would be eliminated through DNA, as the DNA traces found on JonBenet were TDNA (touch DNA). It's easily transferable and I would imagine easily cross-contaminated, as well. It could've been left by anyone or the perpetrator. If everything else we've read about Helgoth is true, it's impossible to ignore. Like I said, I think he may have been involved without committing the murder itself.

[YomRippur]

The third part of the ID Channel documentary aired tonight,

My TV listing shows that TLC will air a 3-hour program called "JonBenét: An American Murder Mystery" on 9/16/16 8 pm ET. Is this the same as the one on ID (which I missed)? Both programs have the same title.

[Pcdunn]

My TV listing shows that TLC will air a 3-hour program called "JonBenét: An American Murder Mystery" on 9/16/16 8 pm ET. Is this the same as the one on ID (which I missed)? Both programs have the same title.

Yes, I think it probably is the same. Perhaps TLC is running all three hours together instead of one-hour segments on three nights.

It's a very good grounding in the case for the beginner, or refresher for the veteran.

[YomRippur]

Yes, I think it probably is the same. Perhaps TLC is running all three hours together instead of one-hour segments on three nights.

It's a very good grounding in the case for the beginner, or refresher for the veteran.

Thanks, I'll be watching. And the CBS special too. I had hoped that NBC would do it, because if it did, it would likely be narrated by Keith Morrison of Dateline. When I watch these true crime TV shows, the ones I enjoy are usually enjoyable because of Morrison's impeccable narration.

[Abby Normal]

Thanks, I'll be watching. And the CBS special too. I had hoped that NBC would do it, because if it did, it would likely be narrated by Keith Morrison of Dateline. When I watch these true crime TV shows, the ones I enjoy are usually enjoyable because of Morrison's impeccable narration.

Hi Yom
Whens the CBS one?

[YomRippur]

Hi Yom
Whens the CBS one?

My TV listing shows Sunday 9/18 8:30pm to 10:30pm ET, and Monday 9/19 9pm to 11pm ET. The program is listed as "The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey". Also, if the Sunday afternoon football game runs too long, expect all the programs after it to be delayed accordingly.

[Pcdunn]

Datline

Thanks, I'll be watching. And the CBS special too. I had hoped that NBC would do it, because if it did, it would likely be narrated by Keith Morrison of Dateline. When I watch these true crime TV shows, the ones I enjoy are usually enjoyable because of Morrison's impeccable narration.

Dateline on NBC already aired an episode on the case, I think it was last Friday. Just part of their normal true murder mysteries series, not a particular special.