JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[AmericanSherlock]

I have to agree with Louisa that the parents had to have been involved somehow.

What intruder sits there comfortably and writes a rambling ransom note with a pen and paper taken from within the victims house? What would the purpose be for a perpetrator that wasn't the Ramseys to write such a note? To cast suspicion away from them? Then why mention the 118 K...only the Ramseys and presumably a few other people would know about this...if the perpetrator was among the few other people, this would be taking an unnecessary risk to shine the light on themselves and would greatly outweigh any perceived benefit of doing so (casting suspicion on the Ramseys).

The alternative, and most simple, therefore easiest to believe explanation is the ransom note was written by someone panicked, nervous, and making something up on the fly to incriminate an intruder. The ransom note really only makes sense if you view it as written by one of the Ramseys, and most likely Patsy imo.

Doesn't make sense as a calmly thought out note, either by an intruder or either (or both) of the Ramseys.

It only makes sense as a panicked note. Now ask yourself, why would an intruder in a state of panic, sit in the location of the crime scene and write out an obviously false ransom note... for what gain? To double-bluff implicate the Ramseys? Not very likely at all imho. An intruding killer would be much better served to try to get out of there as soon as possible. You could argue such a person wouldn't be logical, but I don't think a high strung criminal in a state of illogic would think to find pen, paper, and write a lengthy and bizarre ransom letter--he would seek to get out of there ASAP.

The ransom letter has the odd combination of being seemingly panicked, but also someone comfortable at the scene and feeling that they logically had to write some sort of a letter like (ask yourself why they felt that need?) This strongly implicates the Ramseys and an inside job, or a coverup for what really happened.

My belief is Patsy wrote the note; I think it's hard to say whether John was privy to it, if Burke was the killer then likely yes...if Patsy was, then maybe not. I doubt John was the killer.

[Harry D]

I can't see how Burke would've been able to orchestrate JonBenet's murder and get away with it, overprotective parents be damned. I'm not saying that Burke couldn't have done it in theory. Although rare, young children are capable of performing terrible crimes. And how do we know this? Because children suck at getting away with murder. John & Patsy could only cover for him so much. For Burke to withstand questioning from the police and the grand jury, and not crack under pressure or let anything slip, must mean he's Damien, or he was innocent. And furthermore, for a minor to commit such a disturbing murder on his sister, to go unpunished and never reoffend is even more staggering.

[louisa]

Sherlock - great post! It's what I've been saying all along.

Harry - it all points to BR. The parents probably wouldn't have wanted to cover up if one of them had killed JBR. There would be too much anger. Patsy definitely wouldn't cover for John if he had killed her 'baby'.

BR sounds like he was a strange kid and is now a strange adult. Fully capable of doing all those things to his sister; who I feel sure he resented. Yes a bit of a 'Damien' on the quiet.

When he painted a picture of the family (a few days after the murder) he did not include his sister, which makes me think he was happy she was out of the picture (see what I did there?).

BR was a quiet and withdrawn kid anyway and must have had it drummed into him that he wasn't to speak of ANYTHING that happened that night. He may have been told they would ALL go to jail if he said anything. That would be enough to keep any kid quiet. And by then he had probably forgotten all about killing her; too busy with his Nintendo.

The R's hid behind their lawyers. They had the best that money could buy. They bought off everyone who might talk to the police, including JR's girlfriend (who we will call Gloria). He says he hadn't seen her for over 20 years but decided to pay her a call (after the murder) and sat outside her apartment waiting for her to return. Why would he do that if it wasn't to buy her silence?

Every single person who might have some interesting information was 'got at' by the Ramseys and their lawyers before the police could get there and talk to them. So any potential witnesses were 'primed' (bought off) not to say anything.
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[louisa]

The Whites were first to be accused by the Ramseys, of killing their child. Unbelievable isn't it? With friends like the Ramseys you didn't need enemies.

The R's were terrified that the Whites might talk about what they knew and suspected.

The Whites saw some strange things that night and probably heard Patsy saying more than she should. They saw she was still wearing the same clothes from the night before. They knew tht JBR's body was NOT in the cellar earlier than morning because Fleet had already looked in there.

I think they also knew a lot more than this.

And this is the reason why the R's wanted the Whites to be suspects, or at least discredited. The R's and their attorneys were behind this Krebs woman and gave credence to her accusations of the Whites being paedophiles.

If the Whites were discredited then WHO is going to believe them if and when they start saying what they know about the R's and the night JBR was murdered?



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This is just a section from the letter the Whites wrote to the Judge...


October 15, 2013

The Honorable John Robert Lowenbach
District Court, Boulder County, Colorado
1777 Sixth Street Boulder,
Colorado 80306

Judge Lowenbach:

We are Fleet and Priscilla White, residents of Boulder. Colorado. We were well- acquainted with John and Patsy Ramsey prior to JonBenet’s death. . We were present at the Ramsey home the following day when JonBenet’s body was found. We became police and prosecution witnesses in the ensuing investigation.

In November and December 1998 and January 1999 we voluntarily gave sworn testimony to the Boulder grand jury investigating JonBenet’s death.

Following the homicide, John and Patsy Ramsey, their lawyers and other persons appearing to speak on their behalf, identified us as being involved in the crime. This is revealed in several books detailing the investigation and also by news accounts and documents in the public record. We believe that this was done as a strategic means to discredit us as police and prosecution witnesses. Such attempts to link us to the crime continued following Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter's apparent decision to not sign and file the grand jury’s 1999 indictment.

Attachment C (DA pursues new Ramsey lead, Daily Camera. February 25, 2000) The article speculates that the woman’s information “could mean the Ramsey case is tangled in sexual abuse and involves more people than originally thought.” The woman was later identified as Nancy Krebs, a person who was at that time unknown to us and who to this day we have never met. The Daily Camera’s publication of Ms. Krebs’ story triggered wide-spread speculation that members of our family were somehow responsible for JonBenet’s death as well as for other crimes spanning years involving child abuse, pedophilia and child pornography. At the prodding of Mr. Hunter and the Daily Camera’s leadership, a wasteful eleven-week Boulder police and FBI investigation of the woman’s claims ensued.

The conclusion of the investigation was marked by an official Boulder Police statement dated May 15, 2000 in which Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner stated:
“Unfortunately, the allegations have led to speculation that Fleet and Priscilla White, former close friends of the Ramseys and hosts of the 1996 Christmas party, were somehow involved in the sexual abuse and death of JonBenet. We have no evidence whatsoever to support this and have never had evidence to support such an allegation.”

In regard to his apparent decision in 1999 to not sign and file the grand jury’s indictment against the Ramseys, it is possible that Mr. Hunter was motivated in part by ethical considerations not to charge people with crimes unless he believed he could prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. On the other hand, Mr. Hunter apparently had no such ethical qualms in February' 2000 when it came to publishing Ms. Krebs’ lies for the purpose of destroying Fleet and Priscilla White and pushing them under the “umbrella.”

We support Plaintiffs’ request for disclosure of the written indictment that was prepared for and signed by the grand jury since doing so may provide a basis for (1) vindication of our family from accusations relating to the homicide of JonBenet Ramsey and (2) public scrutiny of Mr. Hunter’s motives and official conduct with respect to the grand jury proceedings and the Ramsey investigation in general.

DISCLOSURE OF THE GRAND JURY INDICTMENT IS NECESSARY FOR PUBLIC SCRUTINY OF BOULDER DISTRICT ATTORNEY MARY LACY’S ACTIONS AND STATEMENTS IN 2008 EXONERATING JOHN AND PATSY RAMSEY.


Fleet Russell White, Jr.
Priscilla Brown White
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[Wickerman]

What intruder sits there comfortably and writes a rambling ransom note with a pen and paper taken from within the victims house?

- What mother could compose herself sufficiently to write a lengthy two page rambling ransom note, after just finding her beloved daughter dead?
Patsy did not have a 'stone cold' persona, if anything quite the reverse, she was highly emotional, yet no tear drops on the ransom note?

She should be absorbed in grief, likely unable to write, or even think!


- What mother could restrain herself on the phone, and appear to be nothing more than anxious, to report a fictitious kidnapping while her beloved daughter is laid dead on the floor in the basement?

She should be paralytic, unable to even speak!


- What mother could act out mere anxiety for six hours, all morning, mumbling phrases like, "I hope she's safe", "please let her be safe", if she knew JB was dead on the floor underneath her feet.

Once the body was found. Patsy couldn't talk, just wail and cry, she couldn't even stand on her own two feet. She was beside herself with grief.

Faking anxiety is what you do when your daughter is safe at grandma's house, and you are only pretending to be worried.
You don't pretend to be worried, when you are really distraught because you just found her dead!
The logic in that argument is backwards.

And, we all know that Patsy was no "actor". We only have to review the interview tapes to see how much of a drama queen she is - not very convincing.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's quite apparent to me that the real story is quite different to what we 'think'.

[louisa]

- What mother could compose herself sufficiently to write a lengthy two page rambling ransom note, after just finding her beloved daughter dead?

One that has to save her son at all costs.

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- What mother could restrain herself on the phone, and appear to be nothing more than anxious, to report a fictitious kidnapping while her beloved daughter is laid dead on the floor in the basement?

She should be paralytic, unable to even speak!

Two words. Patsy Ramsey.

-

What mother could act out mere anxiety for six hours, all morning, mumbling phrases like, "I hope she's safe", "please let her be safe", if she knew JB was dead on the floor underneath her feet.

Once the body was found. Patsy couldn't talk, just wail and cry, she couldn't even stand on her own two feet. She was beside herself with grief.

Faking anxiety is what you do when your daughter is safe at grandma's house, and you are only pretending to be worried.
You don't pretend to be worried, when you are really distraught because you just found her dead!
The logic in that argument is backwards.

And, we all know that Patsy was no "actor". We only have to review the interview tapes to see how much of a drama queen she is - not very convincing.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's quite apparent to me that the real story is quite different to what we 'think'.

Patsy won awards for her acting. Remember?

There is no doubt that she was beside herself with grief. She had just discovered her child lying dead; garrotted (by her son). She didn't have to pretend to be upset because obviously she would have been.

However....later....the couple seemed to forget about their grief. They were never serious about finding their 'intruder' (because they knew he didn't exist). They stopped the pretense of trying to find him as soon as the Grand Jury disbanded.

But once they got a taste of 'celebrity' there was no stopping them.

And I don't think the 'real story' is a million miles from what we think. What most people think, anyway.
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[Wickerman]

The alternative, and most simple, therefore easiest to believe explanation is the ransom note was written by someone panicked, nervous, and making something up on the fly to incriminate an intruder.

I don't recall anyone describing the note as, 'evidently the product of panic'.
Do you have any rationale to explain what portion indicates panic?

It only makes sense as a panicked note. Now ask yourself, why would an intruder in a state of panic, sit in the location of the crime scene and write out an obviously false ransom note... for what gain? To double-bluff implicate the Ramseys? Not very likely at all imho. An intruding killer would be much better served to try to get out of there as soon as possible.

But, your argument above assumes the note was written after the killing. Whereas the intruder theory suggests it was written before, while the intruder was in the house alone waiting for the Ramsey's to return.

[Wickerman]

There is no doubt that she was beside herself with grief. She had just discovered her child lying dead; garrotted (by her son). She didn't have to pretend to be upset because obviously she would have been.

Exactly, so where is this grief in the 911 call?

I do think that for some people to appreciate just how devastating it is to lose a child it may be necessary to talk to someone who has lost a child to murder. Only then may they learn just how incapable they become. Unable to think straight or communicate in any comprehensible way.


John was different, he lost Beth many years earlier and it devastated him. The grief took hold of his life and he had a business to run, so he sought help. John obtained therapy through the books he bought that helped him internalize the stress and the grief so he can function in public life.

This may explain why he came across distant, and more controlled than Patsy. It might explain why Linda Arndt thought he was only 'cordial', he was just applying the stress control that he learned all those years ago.
He was accused of 'not acting like a genuine distraught father', of course he didn't, he was applying the therapy he learned as a result of his first daughters death.

[louisa]

Interesting Aspects of the Crime

Further evidence against the stranger intruder is the lack of signs of struggle, both in the house and on the body. Normally, a body shows signs of distress when being strangled or asphyxiated, such as protrusion of tongue and skin cells under the fingernails when fighting for life. No such signs were found on the body. The duct tape had a perfect set of lip prints with no signs of tongue resistance, indicating it was placed after death or unconsciousness. This leads to the belief that the blow to the head came first.

Forensics tell us that up to two hours elapsed between the blow to the head and the asphyxiation.

There was no evidence of rape or sexual abuse, however, there were abrasions around her vaginal area consistent with being scraped or wiped roughly. There were also abrasions on her body consistent with being dragged on the floor.

The ransom note was the first point of interest, especially as Patsy was initially suspected to have written it. It was written using pen and paper in the Ramsey home, meaning that the alleged kidnapper-murderer would have had to take the time to draft and write a two-and-a-half page ransom note, one of the longest in history, and even replace the pen and pad neatly where they had found it.

The pineapple found in JonBenet’s small intestine is cited as evidence against a stranger intruder, which points more towards either the Ramseys or an acquaintance intruder. The Ramseys had asserted that JonBenet was asleep by the time they returned from the Christmas party at the Whites the night before, which was at about 10 pm; they then put her to bed without feeding her anything. Although transit of ingesta is unreliable and varies from person to person, it is said that JonBenet ate the pineapple an hour and a half to two hours before her death.

Besides hiring legal representation, the Ramseys refused to go to police headquarters for questioning. They wanted to be questioned together rather than separately but the police refused. The Ramseys would later insist that police submit their questions in writing. Once more the police refused, as this would allow the suspects to carefully craft a reply and would avoid spontaneous follow-up questions.

The Ramseys also demanded that they be given all police investigative reports concerning the statements by, and the behaviour of, themselves prior to questioning.
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[Wickerman]

... Normally, a body shows signs of distress when being strangled or asphyxiated, such as protrusion of tongue and skin cells under the fingernails when fighting for life. No such signs were found on the body.

Female skin cells were found beneath her fingernails (assumed to be her own skin), and half-moon scratch marks were on her neck just above the garrotte line. Autopsy photo confirms these scratch marks.
So certainly she struggled at some point, likely before the blow to the head.
The petechial hemorrhage around her neck, and around her eyes is also consistent with her being conscious during strangulation.
Also, in cases of ante-mortem strangulation typically saliva is emitted from the mouth while the ligature is being applied. Saliva was noted around the mouth.
The Coroner indicated that death due to strangulation, and the blow to the head, occurred more or less at the same time.

Quote:
Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.

Because she was resisting the garrotte, clearly she was conscious.
Therefore the garrotte was applied before the blow to the head.
This may indicate there was more than one application of the garrotte.

Medical opinion has indicated the blow to the head was so severe that she would be rendered unconscious immediately (therefore, unable to resist), and, that strangulation was the actual cause of death - in association with the head blow.

According to the autopsy, the blow to the head and the final application of the garrotte occurred at the same time, that is within seconds of each other.

[louisa]

Female skin cells were found beneath her fingernails (assumed to be her own skin), and half-moon scratch marks were on her neck just above the garrotte line. Autopsy photo confirms these scratch marks.
So certainly she struggled at some point, likely before the blow to the head.
The petechial hemorrhage around her neck, and around her eyes is also consistent with her being conscious during strangulation.
Also, in cases of ante-mortem strangulation typically saliva is emitted from the mouth while the ligature is being applied. Saliva was noted around the mouth.
The Coroner indicated that death due to strangulation, and the blow to the head, occurred more or less at the same time.

Quote:
Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.

Because she was resisting the garrotte, clearly she was conscious.
Therefore the garrotte was applied before the blow to the head.
This may indicate there was more than one application of the garrotte.

Medical opinion has indicated the blow to the head was so severe that she would be rendered unconscious immediately (therefore, unable to resist), and, that strangulation was the actual cause of death - in association with the head blow.

According to the autopsy, the blow to the head and the final application of the garrotte occurred at the same time, that is within seconds of each other.

I am sorry Wicksy but I am going to have to put your right on the comments you made in your above post.

You have just contradicted yourself.

You state "because she was resisting the garotte she was clearly conscious"

Then you state "Medical opinion has indicated that because the head trauma was so severe she would have been rendered unconscious immediately (therefore unable to resist)"


Your last paragraph - I don't know what autopsy report you've been reading but all the reports on this case state that up to TWO HOURS could have elapsed between the head trauma and the asphyxiation.

Just because the autopsy reports asphyxiation and head trauma in the same sentence does not mean they happened at the same time. The report itself gives no times whatsoever.

Yes, of course JBR was alive when she was strangled. Most people reading this will already know it.

JBR did NOT struggle while she was being asphyxiated. How could she struggle when her skull had been split in two? She would have been rendered unconscious by that blow to the head. So she was NOT 'resisting the garrote'.

No fresh DNA was found underneath JBR's fingernails and nothing resembling fingernail marks were found on her neck, much as you would like there to be!


.

[louisa]

JOHN FEELS RESPONSIBLE

JBR's father says he holds himself responsible for his daughter's death, telling Dr. Phil (via E! Online) that he thinks his daughter was murdered to punish him. "I sadly, and regretfully believe that, yes," John said.

Now my question is this: What kind of person would think that God would murder a child simply as a punishment for his own sins? (whatever they may be, and we'll probably never know).

This shows John was an egomaniac - the centre of his own universe. Nobody else mattered. Everything bad was done to punish HIM!

This, remember, was a man supposedly pious and religious, presumably believing God was merciful yet can think this same God was so into revenge and punishment that he would let a child be horribly murdered just to teach him, John Ramsey, a lesson!



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And Patsy....

http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm

At 5:40 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 28, Patsy gave the police her first handwriting samples on the second floor of the Boulder County Justice Center. "Will this help find who killed my baby?" Patsy asked a detective. Then she added, "I did not murder my baby."

At that time nobody had said that she HAD!

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And that 911 call.........

And as to their hysteria, To paraphrase:

Patsy: "I was flying around the house, just out of my mind, hysterical, screaming, crying, shaking…"
Haney: "Yet you managed to call 911 and tell the despatcher your address which most people forget to do?"
Patsy: "Well, I got it together for *that* "

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And here's a thought regarding that 911 call.......

Has anyone following this case noticed that Patsy never once mentions the word 'kidnapped'

It's as if she knows it's a lie and couldn't bring herself to say the word.


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[Wickerman]

I am sorry Wicksy but I am going to have to put your right on the comments you made in your above post.

You have just contradicted yourself.

You state "because she was resisting the garotte she was clearly conscious"

Then you state "Medical opinion has indicated that because the head trauma was so severe she would have been rendered unconscious immediately (therefore unable to resist)"

There's no contradiction. I intentionally worded it that way.

Your last paragraph - I don't know what autopsy report you've been reading but all the reports on this case state that up to TWO HOURS could have elapsed between the head trauma and the asphyxiation.

"Reports on this case", are opinions expressed by "others", after reading the same autopsy report that we have all read.

The coroner provided no time distinction between the head wound and the time of death.
Had there been a significant difference in time can you think of a reason why he would not mention such an important detail?

Yes, of course JBR was alive when she was strangled. Most people reading this will already know it.

JBR did NOT struggle while she was being asphyxiated. How could she struggle when her skull had been split in two? She would have been rendered unconscious by that blow to the head. So she was NOT 'resisting the garrote'.

you didn't 'read' the post to which you are responding.

No fresh DNA was found underneath JBR's fingernails and nothing resembling fingernail marks were found on her neck, much as you would like there to be!

The DNA was sent for testing, an adequate description is given by Kolar, and I mentioned the photo showing the half-moon marks - so there's no point in saying the marks don't exist.

[Harry D]

And here's a thought regarding that 911 call.......

Has anyone following this case noticed that Patsy never once mentions the word 'kidnapped'

It's as if she knows it's a lie and couldn't bring herself to say the word.
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“We have a kidnapping. Hurry, please!"

It's like one of the first things she says.

[Wickerman]

JOHN FEELS RESPONSIBLE

JBR's father says he holds himself responsible for his daughter's death, telling Dr. Phil (via E! Online) that he thinks his daughter was murdered to punish him. "I sadly, and regretfully believe that, yes," John said.

Now my question is this: What kind of person would think that God would murder a child simply as a punishment for his own sins? (whatever they may be, and we'll probably never know).

I don't recall 'God' being mentioned by anyone.
John believed that publishing the billion dollars in sales may have caused some 'screwball' to target John (ie; revenge or jealousy) by kidnapping/killing his precious daughter.