JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Abby Normal]

Also, she was covered in her favorite special blanket when found, indicating a family member.

Also, not sure if it's known what John Ramsey's immediate reaction was when he discovered her body. But if he didn't immediately rip the duct tape off her mouth and the cord around her neck then boom done end of story, he knew what happened to her.

[tji]

Hi Abby

Yes apparently he ran to the body as soon as he saw it, removing the tape. While it is perfectly understandable reaction, it also contaminated the scene from the get go. Almost any forensic evidence from him found on her was now tainted.

I do wonder if the outcome of the case would have been the same if the scene had been secured or if it would have changed anything.

Tracy

[Shelley]

I have to say i disagree with you tji regarding the cobweb & broken glass and window. The ransom note was enough to convince the parents their child was kidnapped, no searching further afar from the child's bedroom and kitchen. The police made a real mess of that case to begin with and allowed John Ramsey & his friend to contaminate a crime scene, they didn't even bother to check for a break in, that's why it was some time after that they found the broken window. Sloppy police work to say the least.

It would be interesting to find out when John Ramsey received the $118,000 or so Bonus from his work. That was specifically mentioned in the ransom note and worth taking a look at regarding the letter. Of course John Ramsey could have told a few people at least about his nice bonus, in turn they could have also mentioned this to others.

JonBenet felt comfortable enough with her killer, her killer also knew very well the layout of the house, they were familiar with that. Apparently the house itself was a complicated design and not every room could get spotted that well, unless you knew the house very well, especially in the dark you had to know your way around that house. The family dog was brought by Patsy Ramsey, at a later date this pet of JonBenet's was being looked after by an elderly couple, detectives had interviewed this elderly couple and they seem to be innocent to the police now. John Ramsey was a busy businessman and would have relied on a lot of maintenance for such a big house, such as repairs to the house ( bear in mind that broken window that wasn't repaired at the time of Jonbenet's death ). A dog would faithfully defend and attack and cause a lot of disturbance with a child being attacked, so some persuasion by someone to get rid of the dog, perhaps upon learning of the bonus John Ramsey received. It's also possible that someone was close enough to JonBenet Ramsey to groom her, after all she was a pageant queen and a likely candidate for it.

1. Gas or electrical repairs, supply and piping & wiring etc
2. Appliance utilities and repairs.
3. help with laundry and ironing etc ( Patsy had her own business to run )
4. Car, truck, van service & maintenance repairs.
5. Computer repairs, service & maintenance.
6. Building repairs.

A real handy man perhaps, with knowledge of a lot of technical repairs of vehicles and inside and outside the house perhaps.

Perhaps the persuasion was the dog kept being a bit nosy and getting in the way of things, becoming a maintenance repair nuisance, maybe. Or possibly too protective of JonBenet and biting staff perhaps, something like that maybe.

[Shelley]

Also, she was covered in her favorite special blanket when found, indicating a family member.

Also, not sure if it's known what John Ramsey's immediate reaction was when he discovered her body. But if he didn't immediately rip the duct tape off her mouth and the cord around her neck then boom done end of story, he knew what happened to her.

So she had her special blanket with her, doesn't mean to say it was the parents, both the girl and the blanket were in the house anyway, children can get their own special blankets for themselves, with just about anyone around, doesn't have to be a parent. Quite often a stranger who babysits a child without their parents around as they are away for the evening leaving the babysitter to care for their child or children, often these children will get a favorite toy, a favorite food, or a cover such as a favorite blanket all by themselves. It has no bearing this favorite blanket regarding the guilt of any parent. Besides, it has been cleared up now, the parents are free from any guilt in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey. Would you want to see your child with duct tape around their mouth, i sure as heck wouldn't, so not surprise he took it off her mouth, the fact remains that the police should have taken steps to ensure the crime scene and they didn't, they allowed contamination of the crime scene area, then held the parents as suspects, really what they did was blame the parents for their bad policework, that was so easy to do in view of the situation as well as unprofessional of them. Blame lays with the Police.

[Shelley]

As far as i am aware with a crime scene, the police should start work on the inside first, then work outside, did they do this? The answer is * NO * they did not start on the inside first, they breezed through the house and didn't even find Jonbenet in the basement, nor did they see the broken window, they just walked on through just a little bit.

1. The first arrival at the Ramsey house was by a lone police officer, he didn't even have another officer with him.

2. Hours later they put a detective on her own inside the house with the Ramsey's.

3. Then another officer came by and just breezed a little through the house, then left the detective on her own again, whilst they organised someone to tap the phones if the kidnapper happened to call, they previously used the excuse of that maybe Jonbenet had gone off outside on her own playing with friends before they organised that ~ straightway they did not believe it was a kidnapping.

4. Apparently it has been said that on the 9 11 call Patsy made to the police, that Burke ramsey's voice could be heard in the call, but that John & Patsy denied that Burke was awake and outside of his bedroom at the time patsy made her call, this could have been for any reason , such as Burke's voice on a recording from a family Christmas, or summer holiday recording that was played around or in the kitchen at the time of Patsy's 9 11 call to the police, or indeed it could have been a lie because they didn't want their son involved with a police investigation, he was only 9 yrs old after all.

I personally wouldn't blame them, the Ramsey's for keeping Burke out of all, in view that some American police officers Tazer kids as young as 5 & 8 years old, that could have happened to Burke aged 9 yrs old, so i'd say it was being protective for the parents, if that was the case.

[Shelley]

As far as i am aware with a crime scene, the police should start work on the inside first, then work outside, did they do this? The answer is * NO * they did not start on the inside first, they breezed through the house and didn't even find Jonbenet in the basement, nor did they see the broken window, they just walked on through just a little bit.

1. The first arrival at the Ramsey house was by a lone police officer, he didn't even have another officer with him.

2. Hours later they put a detective on her own inside the house with the Ramsey's.

3. Then another officer came by and just breezed a little through the house, then left the detective on her own again, whilst they organised someone to tap the phones if the kidnapper happened to call, they previously used the excuse of that maybe Jonbenet had gone off outside on her own playing with friends before they organised that ~ straightway they did not believe it was a kidnapping.

4. Apparently it has been said that on the 9 11 call Patsy made to the police, that Burke ramsey's voice could be heard in the call, but that John & Patsy denied that Burke was awake and outside of his bedroom at the time patsy made her call, this could have been for any reason , such as Burke's voice on a recording from a family Christmas, or summer holiday recording that was played around or in the kitchen at the time of Patsy's 9 11 call to the police, or indeed it could have been a lie because they didn't want their son involved with a police investigation, he was only 9 yrs old after all.

I personally wouldn't blame them, the Ramsey's for keeping Burke out of all, in view that some American police officers Tazer kids as young as 5 & 8 years old, that could have happened to Burke aged 9 yrs old, so i'd say it was being protective for the parents, if that was the case.

And to finish, American Police only have themselves to blame when they have officers in their forces, in different areas, that tazer kids in particular for no good reason at all ~ Tazer happy American Cops, utterly shameful for a service that claims to * Serve & protect *. When a service doesn't work for the people and with correct procedure and protocols they are not much of a service to the people, and the communities that they supposedly serve.

[Shelley]

As A Mother Myself

I think it's an absolute disgrace that an American officer tazered a 10 year old kid, just because she wouldn't go to bed, has he never heard of child services for the parent if they have difficulties with their children at night time? Because there must be some reason for the child not going to bed, plus that can happen as a natural period for 10 yr olds anyway, at the same time child Services should be aware of how that Police Officer acted, because if he was a a parent himself how on earth does he treat his own child or children if he treated a member of the public's child that way. tazering people is one thing, BUT TAZERING KIDS? This is virtually beyond belief of conduct of a Police Officer ~ I've never heard of a British Police Officer doing that, NOT EVER! All i can say is that some of the American Police Officers are just plain MADMEN and shouldn't be in a Police Force, especially when all they will do is harm the public at large, as well as cause mistrust of their GOOD fellow Police Officers! It's disgusting tazering 5, 8 & 10 year old kids. has the Word and practice of * CARE * becoming an endangered practice in the USA? Because it looks that way! Do they not go through a psychological test or something over there, across those waters! I'm shocked, as well as finding it utterly abhorrent and disgraceful. British police Officers here in the UK have had cutbacks, they are stressed and workload is now demanding, but they still take the CARE to SERVE the COMMUNITIES and people and be very understanding & helpful towards the public, and are very kind to children in the process and Britain has had it much harder than the USA, much much harder. All i can say is that the USA and Britain are a bridge far apart and our ways are certainly not your ways!!!

Conclusion : Tazering children is no excuse, it's criminal and an absolute utter disgrace! Plus i doubt that the Police Service there helps matters of other services, such as child services!

[Shelley]

Avoiding Contamination of a crime scene

I understand that John & Patsy Ramsey were comforted by friends, which the Boulder Colorado Police were aware of, with the police allowing John Ramsey and his friend to contaminate a crime scene, it could have been avoided, the Ramsey's could have gone over to friends or other relatives houses to be comforted. The crime scene could have been saved had this been suggested in the first place.

I expect if police were not aware of friends & family's houses, they perhaps could suggest it, if other families have reports to police happen of same or similar cases. Or if no friends or family, how about one of the neighbours, everyone has a neighbour, this is so that police work could be carried out properly. Just some thoughts, to help avoid contamination in other cases.

[Shelley]

Yes, apparently it was a stungun used on JonBenet Ramsey, Detective Lou Smit did some tests, they also tested a pig with a stungun. JonBenet had a stungun mark on her face as well. So it was a stungun that had been used.

[tji]

Hi Shelley

I have to say i disagree with you tji regarding the cobweb & broken glass and window.

Fair enough, your call.

The ransom note was enough to convince the parents their child was kidnapped, no searching further afar from the child's bedroom and kitchen.

Not sure your point here Shelley are you saying they didn't bother searching or they didn't need to bother searching?

The police made a real mess of that case to begin with and allowed John Ramsey & his friend to contaminate a crime scene, they didn't even bother to check for a break in, that's why it was some time after that they found the broken window. Sloppy police work to say the least.

I agree the Police did not secure the scene and this would cause problems with getting a conviction of anyone. However the problem for the Ramsey's os the Police inexperience cannot be responsible for the inconsistencies with the note, window etc.

It would be interesting to find out when John Ramsey received the $118,000 or so Bonus from his work. That was specifically mentioned in the ransom note and worth taking a look at regarding the letter. Of course John Ramsey could have told a few people at least about his nice bonus, in turn they could have also mentioned this to others.

It's not really about who 'knew' about the bonus I don't think. By all accounts the Ramsey's could afford far more. It is more about the thought process behind the reason of that amount being specified. This in all fairness could point away from the Ramsey's as well as towards them.

JonBenet felt comfortable enough with her killer, her killer also knew very well the layout of the house, they were familiar with that. Apparently the house itself was a complicated design and not every room could get spotted that well, unless you knew the house very well, especially in the dark you had to know your way around that house.

We can't really say she felt comfortable with her killer though, that only works if she willingly went downstairs with him, we don't know that this is the case.

The family dog was brought by Patsy Ramsey, at a later date this pet of JonBenet's was being looked after by an elderly couple, detectives had interviewed this elderly couple and they seem to be innocent to the police now. John Ramsey was a busy businessman and would have relied on a lot of maintenance for such a big house, such as repairs to the house ( bear in mind that broken window that wasn't repaired at the time of Jonbenet's death ). A dog would faithfully defend and attack and cause a lot of disturbance with a child being attacked, so some persuasion by someone to get rid of the dog, perhaps upon learning of the bonus John Ramsey received. It's also possible that someone was close enough to JonBenet Ramsey to groom her, after all she was a pageant queen and a likely candidate for it.

Never heard anything about a dog, but the Ramsey's were going away the following day so chances are they had got it minded for that.

1. Gas or electrical repairs, supply and piping & wiring etc
2. Appliance utilities and repairs.
3. help with laundry and ironing etc ( Patsy had her own business to run )
4. Car, truck, van service & maintenance repairs.
5. Computer repairs, service & maintenance.
6. Building repairs.

A real handy man perhaps, with knowledge of a lot of technical repairs of vehicles and inside and outside the house perhaps.

Yet John nor the workmen thought to mention fixing the broken window that was big enough to allow a person in?


Tracy

[tji]

So she had her special blanket with her, doesn't mean to say it was the parents, both the girl and the blanket were in the house anyway, children can get their own special blankets for themselves, with just about anyone around, doesn't have to be a parent. Quite often a stranger who babysits a child without their parents around as they are away for the evening leaving the babysitter to care for their child or children, often these children will get a favorite toy, a favorite food, or a cover such as a favorite blanket all by themselves. It has no bearing this favorite blanket regarding the guilt of any parent. Besides, it has been cleared up now, the parents are free from any guilt in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey. Would you want to see your child with duct tape around their mouth, i sure as heck wouldn't, so not surprise he took it off her mouth, the fact remains that the police should have taken steps to ensure the crime scene and they didn't, they allowed contamination of the crime scene area, then held the parents as suspects, really what they did was blame the parents for their bad policework, that was so easy to do in view of the situation as well as unprofessional of them.

The reason the blanket is pointed out is the way she was wrapped in her favorite blanket. It was seen as a caring gesture, one someone who cared about her would do, not something a stranger would do.

Blame lays with the Police.

Yeah, see I tend to blame the killer.

Tracy

[tji]

As far as i am aware with a crime scene, the police should start work on the inside first, then work outside, did they do this? The answer is * NO * they did not start on the inside first, they breezed through the house and didn't even find Jonbenet in the basement, nor did they see the broken window, they just walked on through just a little bit.

1. The first arrival at the Ramsey house was by a lone police officer, he didn't even have another officer with him.

2. Hours later they put a detective on her own inside the house with the Ramsey's.

As you have pointed out yourself, this was suspected kidnapping. I would imagine the protocol is different for both.

3. Then another officer came by and just breezed a little through the house, then left the detective on her own again, whilst they organised someone to tap the phones if the kidnapper happened to call, they previously used the excuse of that maybe Jonbenet had gone off outside on her own playing with friends before they organised that ~ straightway they did not believe it was a kidnapping.

So what did they believe it was?

4. Apparently it has been said that on the 9 11 call Patsy made to the police, that Burke ramsey's voice could be heard in the call, but that John & Patsy denied that Burke was awake and outside of his bedroom at the time patsy made her call, this could have been for any reason , such as Burke's voice on a recording from a family Christmas, or summer holiday recording that was played around or in the kitchen at the time of Patsy's 9 11 call to the police, or indeed it could have been a lie because they didn't want their son involved with a police investigation, he was only 9 yrs old after all.

That is the worst excuse ever......who would be playing a summer holiday recording at that time?!

Not wanting to involve their son I can accept, problem is if you are caught in one lie then trust unravels quickly.

I personally wouldn't blame them, the Ramsey's for keeping Burke out of all, in view that some American police officers Tazer kids as young as 5 & 8 years old, that could have happened to Burke aged 9 yrs old, so i'd say it was being protective for the parents, if that was the case.

um ok.

And to finish, American Police only have themselves to blame when they have officers in their forces, in different areas, that tazer kids in particular for no good reason at all ~ Tazer happy American Cops, utterly shameful for a service that claims to * Serve & protect *. When a service doesn't work for the people and with correct procedure and protocols they are not much of a service to the people, and the communities that they supposedly serve.

Not sure of your point here Shelley, can't see how Police tasering children connects to Jon Benet getting murdered?

Yes it is unacceptable to taser a child for the majority of reasons (not sure if there is an actual reason but I think if they were going to endanger themselves or others it maybe acceptable) but I don't think the majority of Police will going around tasering kids just for amusement factor.
I think it is a little unfair to tar all Police with the same brush.

Tracy

[tji]

I understand that John & Patsy Ramsey were comforted by friends, which the Boulder Colorado Police were aware of, with the police allowing John Ramsey and his friend to contaminate a crime scene, it could have been avoided, the Ramsey's could have gone over to friends or other relatives houses to be comforted. The crime scene could have been saved had this been suggested in the first place.

I expect if police were not aware of friends & family's houses, they perhaps could suggest it, if other families have reports to police happen of same or similar cases. Or if no friends or family, how about one of the neighbours, everyone has a neighbour, this is so that police work could be carried out properly. Just some thoughts, to help avoid contamination in other cases.

Yes apparently 3 minutes after phoning the Police the neighbours were contacted by Patsy. I have to say I have never been in the same situation but I would think I would be doing at the very least a sweeping glance of the house before phoning people.

[tji]

Yes, apparently it was a stungun used on JonBenet Ramsey, Detective Lou Smit did some tests, they also tested a pig with a stungun. JonBenet had a stungun mark on her face as well. So it was a stungun that had been used.

Reports have been put forward questioning these findings, apparently the spacing between the points don't align correctly for stun gun prongs.


If they aren't from a stun gun it will be interesting to see what they came from. Some people have put forward toys that were found at the scene could have made them, but not sure how correct this is.

[Shelley]

Reports have been put forward questioning these findings, apparently the spacing between the points don't align correctly for stun gun prongs.


If they aren't from a stun gun it will be interesting to see what they came from. Some people have put forward toys that were found at the scene could have made them, but not sure how correct this is.

Ive heard that too, but not so sure, tests had been carried out, maybe different models of stunguns, however the marks and extent of force needs some consideration.