JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Shelley]

Sorry?



Sorry?

i don't understand tji, i have already mentioned that dna evidence that the police are now dealing with, is dna that does not belong to John Ramsey. Indeed NOW the police are saying that John & Patsy Ramsey are not involved with their daughter JonBenet ramsey's murder.

[tji]

You didn't, but did i say that you did specifically?

Yup - here

2. Are you saying tji that John Ramsey did it to his own daughter JonBenet? That it isn't patsy ramsey now?

tji just asking, have you at any one time worked for a police force?

Nope, why?

[tji]

Hi Shelley

i don't understand tji, i have already mentioned that dna evidence that the police are now dealing with, is dna that does not belong to John Ramsey. Indeed NOW the police are saying that John & Patsy Ramsey are not involved with their daughter JonBenet ramsey's murder.

It confused me when you stated new DNA, I thought you were referring to other DNA not already mentioned.

[Shelley]

Stun gun Doesn't match?

Previously Lou Smit claimed a stun gun made the marks on JonBenet's body, now an AirTazer can't seem to match the marks on JonBenet's body.

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

Is there any other type of stun gun that could cause these rust marks on JonBenet's body? However, JonBenet was also taken down to the basement, i understand as far as i am aware that a lot of items were strewn on the basement floor and she was dragged a little on the floor, maybe something else caused it? Or perhaps some rust from Patsy's old paint brush, the handle of the paint brush was broken off and used to help make a garrote.

[Shelley]

Yup - here





Nope, why?

Just wondering that's all? A teacher maybe?

[Shelley]

tji, so sorry that you may have thought i had actually stated that you suspected for certain that it was either Patsy Ramsey or John Ramsey that did it, by your quote here :

tji Quote " Yup - here "

Quote:
2. Are you saying tji that John Ramsey did it to his own daughter JonBenet? That it isn't patsy ramsey now?

__________________________________________________ ________________

I was just questioning that you maybe tji, i wasn't actually saying that you had or did accuse them. Just to clarify that tji. Once again i am sorry if you thought i had made that accusation.

[tji]

Hi Shelley

Just wondering that's all? A teacher maybe?

Nope -just your average armchair buff.

I was just questioning that you maybe tji, i wasn't actually saying that you had or did accuse them. Just to clarify that tji. Once again i am sorry if you thought i had made that accusation.

Thanks but no need to apologise Shelley, I only pointed it out to disprove your post that you said you hadn't. It is the nature of the board's when you are quick firing posts at each other to get confused sometimes.

Tracy

[Shelley]

tji i hope you won't take offense, but the cobweb on or around that broken window wasn't a big cobweb for not being able to gain entry. Just thought i'd point tat out, not trying to disprove anything here, just a reminder and pointing that out.

[Barnaby]

Glad to see this case being discussed in these forums. A real whodunit. I, personally, have been stumped for a long time.

My personal bias is that John and/or Patsy was at least involved in the cover up and ransom note. If (and that's a big if) someone else committed the crime, they were really comfy in the Ramsey house bringing nothing with them to commit this heinous act and being able to access the house without a forced entry. This makes me think that one or both parents (if they were not involved in the murder) covered for someone they knew. Why? I have no clue. I don't think it was Burke. Forget the sex. Nine-year-olds don't garrote.

I think one or both Ramses were involved in something shady that spun out of control. Wild speculation. And I don't know if it was something sexual or something financial.

It is certainly possible that they are both innocent. But I would be more surprised by this than surprised if one or both was involved in some way.

[tji]

tji i hope you won't take offense, but the cobweb on or around that broken window wasn't a big cobweb for not being able to gain entry. Just thought i'd point tat out, not trying to disprove anything here, just a reminder and pointing that out.

No offence taken at all Shelley, no worries.

However looking at the video I tend to disagree, given the shards of glass left in the window the way they are and the cobwebs around the glass/windowsill I don't think it is likely anyone has climbed in or out for a while.

Tracy

[tji]

Hi Barnaby

Glad to see this case being discussed in these forums. A real whodunit. I, personally, have been stumped for a long time.

I think the biggest problem for the public will be (I assume) there will be evidence/facts that have been kept back which leads us to chase our tails with the information we do have.
It also leads to a confusing case, which as you say stumps a lot of us.

My personal bias is that John and/or Patsy was at least involved in the cover up and ransom note. If (and that's a big if) someone else committed the crime, they were really comfy in the Ramsey house bringing nothing with them to commit this heinous act and being able to access the house without a forced entry. This makes me think that one or both parents (if they were not involved in the murder) covered for someone they knew. Why? I have no clue. I don't think it was Burke. Forget the sex. Nine-year-olds don't garrote.

As I said to Shelley I believe the whole case is centered in that house, nothing seems to have been brought in and nothing taken out. I think this leaves the odds of it being a stranger abduction/killing quite remote. Just the range of travelling within the house that needed to be undertaken to collect things needed, while staying undetected is a red flag to me.

I could probably accept the scenario Burke killing Jonbenet in a fit of rage, but not the sexual abuse. I would also think it very odd that any parent would cover up a crime like this by abusing Jonbenet's body the way it was.
So I think it is unlikely it was Burke.

I think one or both Ramses were involved in something shady that spun out of control. Wild speculation. And I don't know if it was something sexual or something financial.

I think at the very least someone in the household knew something.

It is certainly possible that they are both innocent. But I would be more surprised by this than surprised if one or both was involved in some way.

Me too.

Tracy

[Abby Normal]

Hi Barnaby



I think the biggest problem for the public will be (I assume) there will be evidence/facts that have been kept back which leads us to chase our tails with the information we do have.
It also leads to a confusing case, which as you say stumps a lot of us.



As I said to Shelley I believe the whole case is centered in that house, nothing seems to have been brought in and nothing taken out. I think this leaves the odds of it being a stranger abduction/killing quite remote. Just the range of travelling within the house that needed to be undertaken to collect things needed, while staying undetected is a red flag to me.

I could probably accept the scenario Burke killing Jonbenet in a fit of rage, but not the sexual abuse. I would also think it very odd that any parent would cover up a crime like this by abusing Jonbenet's body the way it was.
So I think it is unlikely it was Burke.



I think at the very least someone in the household knew something.



Me too.

Tracy

Hi Tracy and Barnaby
I agree. It was a family member or some combination. I would not even rule out Burke having some part in it. Its almost to horrible to speculate on the reasons.

If it was not one of the immediate family, then it must have been someone who came in and out of the house without leaving a trace and was extremely close to the Ramsey's and who was not acting or thinking rationally either because of mental issues and/or under the influence. They also must have been extremely lucky to have not awoken anyone.


Both scenarios seem unlikely but to me the first is the least unlikely.

However, I think it nearly impossible that it was a total stranger and intruder. The ransom/bonus amount pretty much rules that out.

[tji]

Hi Abby

Yeah I think this is the problem that a lot of us face, while it point's to the household, who would do that to their child/sibling just to cover up for someone else.

If they were covering for Burke surely an accidental death would have been better than to abuse her.
If it was someone connected to the household, i.e friend relative, I again think it is an extreme act of violence of your own daughter to cover for them, I know I wouldn't!

However it just doesn't fit that a stranger could have access to the house in the way needed to set everything up.

Yeah the note is just.......strange. If it wasn't for the note I would be more inclined to think maybe intruder, so if it was the Ramsey's they really messed up with it.

The way I see it if you are planning on kidnapping a child you take a ransom note/information with you. Also that wasn't a note it was a letter/essay!
Then you have the fact that if it is a kidnapping you need to keep her alive or at least the illusion she is still alive. To kill her and leave her there defeats everything.
Everything points to it being a bungled inexperienced job from the start (if it was intruder/abduction) yet they manage to leave only a microscopic piece of evidence?

Tracy

[Harry D]

Some points of interest I found:

Detectives found a partial draft of the ransom note in the home, and the legal pad on which the final ransom had been written, along with Ramsey handwriting samples similar to the style on the note.

There were no signs of forced entry. The alarm system had not been activated. Four people were known to be in the house that night, JonBenet, her nine-year-old brother Burke, and their parents.

Officer Barry Harkopp interviewed next door neighbors and reported that Scott Gibbons saw strange lights and movements coming from the kitchen area around midnight; and neighbor Melody Stanton awoke her husband around midnight after hearing a scream, and he stated he heard “the sound of metal clashing against cement.” The Ramseys say they heard none of this.

On Dec. 27, 1996 Patsy Ramsey, being exhausted and lying down, reached up and touched the face of a friend, Pam Griffin, the woman who had made JonBenet's pageant costumes. Griffin thought Patsy was delirious when she asked, “Couldn’t you fix this for me?” as though a sewing machine could bring back her daughter. She then remembers Patsy saying, “We didn’t mean for this to happen” and Griffin got the definite feeling that in her weakened condition, Patsy had revealed that she knew who the killer was.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

Yeah I think this is the problem that a lot of us face, while it point's to the household, who would do that to their child/sibling just to cover up for someone else.

If they were covering for Burke surely an accidental death would have been better than to abuse her.
If it was someone connected to the household, i.e friend relative, I again think it is an extreme act of violence of your own daughter to cover for them, I know I wouldn't!

However it just doesn't fit that a stranger could have access to the house in the way needed to set everything up.

Yeah the note is just.......strange. If it wasn't for the note I would be more inclined to think maybe intruder, so if it was the Ramsey's they really messed up with it.

The way I see it if you are planning on kidnapping a child you take a ransom note/information with you. Also that wasn't a note it was a letter/essay!
Then you have the fact that if it is a kidnapping you need to keep her alive or at least the illusion she is still alive. To kill her and leave her there defeats everything.
Everything points to it being a bungled inexperienced job from the start (if it was intruder/abduction) yet they manage to leave only a microscopic piece of evidence?

Tracy

The fact that the Ramsey's did not find her body in the basement room some 8 hours after she was discovered Missing and only after told by police to go look for her is a HUGE red flag for me. What parent wouldn't search every inch of their house asap, and I mean every inch, if they their child is missing, especially under those circs?? C'mon.