This Is The Zodiac Speaking.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I finished the series last night and I have to say that I enjoyed it. The connection with the family and their ‘revelations’ are intriguing and I’m wondering what would be the odds of one of the cyphers being solved to reveal the name of the mother of the family who Allen was in a relationship with? Albeit one letter out. Possibly not as impressive as it appears on the surface? Although I’ve never studied the case closely it’s always seemed to me that Allen is a strong suspect although I accept of course that there are points against him. I’m assuming that they intend a second series where they track down relatives of the victims and compare DNA with that from the knife?

[Abby Normal]

Allen is the best suspect. But why do some experts (e.g., Tom Voight of the zodiackiller website) seemingly prefer Gaikowski?

because everyone wants there own, new and improved! pet suspect. especially to promote a website, a book, their ego etc. you see the phenomenon here lol

[Filby]

I’m half way through the second episode of this new Netflix series based on the recollections of a family that knew Arthur Leigh Allen well. He’s always seemed a good suspect to me but I’m no expert on the case and I’ve read that many experts dismiss him. I once spent an hour or two reading stuff on a Zodiac forum and saw that Robert Graysmith came in for some serious criticism.

He also wrote a ripper book of course.

Thanks, Herlock, for the link. I just starting watching this. I'm no expert either, but old enough to remember the havoc and chaos it created in SF.

[Filby]

I just finished the Netflix series - thanks to Herlock for mentioning it. Spoiler here, so read at your own desire: Allen as the Z was especially convincing. But I am easily convinced. So I watched with skepticism best I could as Jeff suggested:

For me, the Seawater family relationship was a strange situation at first, and possibly became a more fluid situation through the active years of Z. The fact all three confirmed they were at the murder locations on these "trips" with Allen - at one point on the same day (with blood present) was chilling. What I cannot come to terms is for their holidays, Allen had the rest of the entire state of California to travel within. Perhaps one location is forgivable as coincidental, but all? This was extremely difficult for me to be skeptical about. I believe Allen eventually came to use the children being a sick predator, and also their presence as a cover. The ciphers used during Allen's classroom days cannot be ignored. While not impossible, quite improbable such a method was used in basic high school education in the 60s, even in mathematics, algebras or science. Given the rest of the evidence against Allen, this is very convincing.

What i cannot come to terms with regarding the series was the convenient absence of handwriting forensics and that mismatch. The inconvenient mismatch of the police ID with Allen's likeness.

I'm an amateur - I wouldn't even call myself an amateur rather an interest I have with certain crimes ever since I began reading about Manson in the 60s. But at times certain aspects of a case I cannot abandon as evidence no matter how skeptical I am: For me this one includes the fact that Allen went so far to alienate himself as the Z, but continues to wear his Zodiac watch. If you really, honestly didn't want to be connected with the murder, wouldn't you perhaps put it away for good?

Looking at the videos, Allen was under severe mental duress. I am not a psychiatrist but I have been married to a psychiatrist for decades and transcribed probably 50 or 60 mental status exams for him. I believe Allen could have been suffering from some form of dissociative disorder. Dissociatives (sorry not to sound derogatory - even I have this a hint of this where I forget where I'm going when I drive) where we become "separate" from ourselves. Many have different ego states, may act like a child or even be an aggressor but it is basically two more more distinct personalities with marked discontinuity and sense of self and a related "other." Traumatic events can be blocked and symptoms are not caused by any type of stimulant, etc.

P.S. My other would be furious with me for commenting on such without an official clinical evaluation, I might add

Overall I'm 80% convinced, 20% not convinced and need to read further and hope, like the series stated, something or someone shows up.

[scottnapa]

I am late to the party, but i have something to share. There are some interesting parallels between the Ripper and the Zodiac
The Zodiac case is fascinating for a number of very good reasons. It does connect with Jack the Ripper and with The Black Dahlia Murder, because in all three cases, the killer corresponded with the press which created quite a bit of anxiety in the public because every day the headline was about a killer on the loose
There is no doubt in my mind that the Ripper case played a role in the decision by the the Zodiac killer and the Black Dahlia Avenger to “go public” based on the desire to have the impact and notoriety that Jack the Ripper acquired . (regardless of your opinion on whether the ripper letters are real or fake, the public impression of Jack the Ripper is what matters for this comparison.)

I have lived in Napa for 28 years. I have visited the Lake Berryessa site. It is isolated. The couple chose a spot invisible from the road for privacy. This killing is a significant departure for the killer. The Berressa killing resembles the prior murders in that he attacks a couple disables the male and then kills the woman.

What is different? Lake Berryessa is the Zodiac’s only daytime attack. , He attacks a couple who are a picnic date. This time only, the killer wears a hooded self designed Zodiac costume. Only to realize this makes him easy to spot and his design makes him look like a target. The costume offers a strong indicator of the killer’s fantasy elements as it resembles a comic book character. This is his only knife attack and he is not good at it. Cecelia Shepard is struggling against her ropes, so she writhes to loosen them and the Zodiac keeps stabbing rib bones when he manages to hit her chest and stabs her arms when he misses. It is sloppy and tiresome.

Things went better the other times when he used a gun. Pulling a trigger is fast and simple. From this point on the Zodiac decelerates. ( in in contrast to Jack the Ripper, whose violent actions accelerates overtime and the Ripper ratchets up his fantasy and his mutilation, The Zodiac is ratcheting down. He kills a cab driver in the city, Paul Stein, a single man not a couple. The Zodiac is alost caught andhe is forever spooked by that and as far as we know did not kill again.
He mails the bloody shirt to the newspaper. Is this another Jack the Ripper inspired act? Sending proof in the mail. A shirt not a kidney


I met a man who when he was a boy of 8 years, was at that car wash that night.
I dated a girl who went to that Catholic school across the street from the pay phone. So every day in the school yard she feels the presence of the killer at that pay phone. What is a child to think when the killer says her will kill children on a school bus?

Arthur Allen is a spectacular suspect. Indeed there are many good suspects in the Zodiac case.
I wish it was Arthur Allen. But that would involve him having an accomplice.

For the Black Dahlia there are three ok suspects, but Hodel, Dillon and Bailey are innocent.

For Jack the Ripper, well, sadly, there are 15ish mediocre suspects.