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** The Murder of Julia Wallace **

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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    But how did he get bloodstains in his car from a murder that took place at least 4 hours earlier? And why had he apparently dumped one mitten but retained the bloodied one? You know this of course.
    and why would he confess.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by etenguy View Post

      and why would he confess.
      And why didn’t Parry tell him not to tell anyone
      Regards

      Herlock



      Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        But how did he get bloodstains in his car from a murder that took place at least 4 hours earlier? And why had he apparently dumped one mitten but retained the bloodied one? You know this of course.
        hi herlock
        how long after the events did the whole parry at the garage thing come to light? did this come up at trial?
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

          hi herlock
          how long after the events did the whole parry at the garage thing come to light? did this come up at trial?
          Hi Abby,

          50 years later.

          Even though one of the family interviewed said that this was ‘common knowledge’ around the yard at the time. So we have Liverpool’s most famous murder (since Maybrick) with all the publicity of the trial and then the Appeal and here we have a man talking to the ‘murderer’ just after the crime and it doesn’t leak out? No one mentions it for 50 years? Yeah right.

          Why would they not have talked about it? According to Parkes he’d reported this to the police and had been dismissed and so neither he nor anyone at the garage had any reason for maintaining silence. They’d ‘done the right thing’ after all. Can we really believe that no one would have mentioned this to ‘Fred in the pub’ or his brother-in-law or a regular customer or someone? I don’t think so for a minute. It’s been suggested that he’d been threatened into silence but there’s not a shred of evidence for this and the ‘fact’ that he’d spoken to the police anyway speaks against this anyway.

          And this ‘evidence’, apart from Wallace mentioning him, is the only thing connecting Parry to the crime. And because he had a rock solid alibi for the murder a sidestep was required. So we have him masterminding this ‘robbery gone wrong.’ Party was definitely dodgy but he’s also the perfect fall guy (especially with Wallace pointing the police in his direction.)
          Regards

          Herlock



          Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

            Hi Abby,

            50 years later.

            Even though one of the family interviewed said that this was ‘common knowledge’ around the yard at the time. So we have Liverpool’s most famous murder (since Maybrick) with all the publicity of the trial and then the Appeal and here we have a man talking to the ‘murderer’ just after the crime and it doesn’t leak out? No one mentions it for 50 years? Yeah right.

            Why would they not have talked about it? According to Parkes he’d reported this to the police and had been dismissed and so neither he nor anyone at the garage had any reason for maintaining silence. They’d ‘done the right thing’ after all. Can we really believe that no one would have mentioned this to ‘Fred in the pub’ or his brother-in-law or a regular customer or someone? I don’t think so for a minute. It’s been suggested that he’d been threatened into silence but there’s not a shred of evidence for this and the ‘fact’ that he’d spoken to the police anyway speaks against this anyway.

            And this ‘evidence’, apart from Wallace mentioning him, is the only thing connecting Parry to the crime. And because he had a rock solid alibi for the murder a sidestep was required. So we have him masterminding this ‘robbery gone wrong.’ Party was definitely dodgy but he’s also the perfect fall guy (especially with Wallace pointing the police in his direction.)
            totally agree. i always take this sort of way after the fact type "evidence" with a grain of salt. and fifty years later!?! pffft.
            "Is all that we see or seem
            but a dream within a dream?"

            -Edgar Allan Poe


            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

            -Frederick G. Abberline

            Comment


            • My memory could be at fault here but wasn’t Parkes the only source for the suggestion that Parry liked to make prank calls too? Might Parkes have held some kind of grudge against Parry? Well we know that Parkes certainly didn’t like or trust him. At least one of the Atkinson family confirmed that Parkes had mentioned Parry’s visit to the garage so did the family have any grudge against Parry? Yes, he’d been caught rummaging through cupboards in a room where they’d kept cash.
              Regards

              Herlock



              Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                My memory could be at fault here but wasn’t Parkes the only source for the suggestion that Parry liked to make prank calls too? Might Parkes have held some kind of grudge against Parry? Well we know that Parkes certainly didn’t like or trust him. At least one of the Atkinson family confirmed that Parkes had mentioned Parry’s visit to the garage so did the family have any grudge against Parry? Yes, he’d been caught rummaging through cupboards in a room where they’d kept cash.
                Hi Herlock

                I think you are right to point out there was some tension between Parry and the garage folk - but to put him in the frame for murder on the basis of that seems, to me, to be going a little too far.

                If I am correct, then why would Parkes (as he is the only primary source) tell such a story (remembering it was 50 years later but also told to the police at the time). I can think of four options:
                1. It was true.
                2. There was a strong hatred of Parry (perhaps Parkes had been bullied?)
                3. For some reason Parkes thought Parry was guilty and wanted to put him in the frame.
                4. Parkes wanted his five minutes of fame.

                I find it difficult to believe it was true - but maybe it was, and maybe it had nothing to do with Julia's murder but some other crime - Parry didn't say why it would get him in trouble and maybe exaggerated the consequences to build his reputation as a hard man.

                Otherwise I think I favour Parkes wanting to feel important and getting his five minutes of fame.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by etenguy View Post

                  Hi Herlock

                  I think you are right to point out there was some tension between Parry and the garage folk - but to put him in the frame for murder on the basis of that seems, to me, to be going a little too far.

                  If I am correct, then why would Parkes (as he is the only primary source) tell such a story (remembering it was 50 years later but also told to the police at the time). I can think of four options:
                  1. It was true.
                  2. There was a strong hatred of Parry (perhaps Parkes had been bullied?)
                  3. For some reason Parkes thought Parry was guilty and wanted to put him in the frame.
                  4. Parkes wanted his five minutes of fame.

                  I find it difficult to believe it was true - but maybe it was, and maybe it had nothing to do with Julia's murder but some other crime - Parry didn't say why it would get him in trouble and maybe exaggerated the consequences to build his reputation as a hard man.

                  Otherwise I think I favour Parkes wanting to feel important and getting his five minutes of fame.
                  Hi Eten,

                  It has to be pointed out that there’s not a single mention of Parkes in any of the files seen so far so there’s no evidence that Parkes actually went to the police. Taking this a little further, how likely would it have been for the police to have dismissed a man out of hand that appeared to be handing them something as important as this evidence? Granted the police had fixed on Wallace but would they have been so stupid as to have taken the risk of Parry or one of the Atkinson’s going and retrieving the weapon from where Parry ‘alleged’ that it had been dumped? Or Parkes going to the press with his story of being rebuffed by the police (bloodied murder weapon in hand?)

                  Could we add 5. Parry, looking to get his own back on Parkes, and knowing that he had an unshakeable alibi and no blood on his clothing and that there was no weapon down a drain, just acted suspiciously hoping that Parkes would contact the police but get branded as a time waster? I don’t know?

                  The problem for me is that Parkes story simply isn’t believable. It has Parry acting in a mind-numbingly stupid way with the police following suite. I just don’t accept that something could have been common knowledge amongst several people at a busy garage and yet it remained a secret for 50 years. And the man that first mentioned Parkes was a mystery man who appeared to be after money at first for Wilkes chance to get to speak to an old man in hospital with not long to live.
                  Regards

                  Herlock



                  Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                  Comment


                  • Not definitive enough for me to change my mind about Wallace’s guilt, but someone reminded me recently that Wallace continued writing in his diary when all the dust had settled and he was living in the Wirral . Now , I may be misremembering, but was he not saying stuff like. ‘Julia would have loved this little home and garden , and enjoyed the beautiful spring flowers’ ,and so on and so forth. If this is true , wouldn’t it point away from the likelihood of him being guilty? Even Wallace at his calculating scheming best is not, I think, likely to care one way or another what the world believed after he was dead! Or would he?

                    The 3rd instalment of the ‘Wilkes radio city,1981 Parkes interview,’was what convinced me, that the author , and program producers were too gullible for words. They had to see that Parkes was one slice short of a loaf, .The programme and the book as I’ve mentioned before were halfways instrumental in my believing in Wallace’s guilt.
                    Last edited by moste; 03-01-2021, 01:26 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by moste View Post
                      Not definitive enough for me to change my mind about Wallace’s guilt, but someone reminded me recently that Wallace continued writing in his diary when all the dust had settled and he was living in the Wirral . Now , I may be misremembering, but was he not saying stuff like. ‘Julia would have loved this little home and garden , and enjoyed the beautiful spring flowers’ ,and so on and so forth. If this is true , wouldn’t it point away from the likelihood of him being guilty? Even Wallace at his calculating scheming best is not, I think, likely to care one way or another what the world believed after he was dead! Or would he?

                      The 3rd instalment of the ‘Wilkes radio city,1981 Parkes interview,’was what convinced me, that the author , and program producers were too gullible for words. They had to see that Parkes was one slice short of a loaf, .The programme and the book as I’ve mentioned before were halfways instrumental in my believing in Wallace’s guilt.
                      Nothing wrong with your memory Moste and it’s certainly a valid point but I’d say that as Wallace points the finger at Parry as being Julia’s murder it might also point to the fact that he was still ‘in the zone’ as far as those events were concerned. If he was hoping that someone might look into the case and hopefully clear his name then his diaries were there to be read.

                      I wonder what happened to those diaries and what info they might have contained? Obviously he didn’t mention Parry by name in his John Bull articles but he’d have had no such restrictions in his diary and so I’d assume that he openly accused Parry in them? William’s personal belongings would have gone to Joseph, as Sole Executor, who may have destroyed them or passed them on to Edwin who also may have destroyed them but it’s not impossible that they are in the attic of one of Edwin’s descendants. Joseph died in 1950 and Edwin died young 10 years later.
                      Regards

                      Herlock



                      Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                      Comment


                      • I don’t know if anything can be read into this but isn’t it a coincidence that Parkes claimed that Parry said that the weapon had been put down a drain in front a doctors house in Priory Road. The Wallace’s own Doctor Curwen lived in Priory Road.
                        Regards

                        Herlock



                        Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                          I don’t know if anything can be read into this but isn’t it a coincidence that Parkes claimed that Parry said that the weapon had been put down a drain in front a doctors house in Priory Road. The Wallace’s own Doctor Curwen lived in Priory Road.
                          Hmmm has anyone seen a description of Parkes? Thinking about the man in Richmond Park.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by etenguy View Post

                            Hmmm has anyone seen a description of Parkes? Thinking about the man in Richmond Park.
                            I don’t think that there is one Eten. We only have the photograph of Parkes in old age.
                            Regards

                            Herlock



                            Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by etenguy View Post

                              Hi Herlock

                              I think you are right to point out there was some tension between Parry and the garage folk - but to put him in the frame for murder on the basis of that seems, to me, to be going a little too far.

                              If I am correct, then why would Parkes (as he is the only primary source) tell such a story (remembering it was 50 years later but also told to the police at the time). I can think of four options:
                              1. It was true.
                              2. There was a strong hatred of Parry (perhaps Parkes had been bullied?)
                              3. For some reason Parkes thought Parry was guilty and wanted to put him in the frame.
                              4. Parkes wanted his five minutes of fame.

                              I find it difficult to believe it was true - but maybe it was, and maybe it had nothing to do with Julia's murder but some other crime - Parry didn't say why it would get him in trouble and maybe exaggerated the consequences to build his reputation as a hard man.

                              Otherwise I think I favour Parkes wanting to feel important and getting his five minutes of fame.
                              Hi eten - in his post earlier today (#534), moste memorably refers to Parkes in the Radio City broadcast as being ''one slice short of a loaf''. When I heard the broadcast, I actually wondered if Parkes was suffering dementia. That might present a fifth option. And just to add - options 2, 3 and 4 as you have listed are not mutually exclusive and may have all also influenced Parkes.

                              Best regards,
                              OneRound

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by OneRound View Post

                                Hi eten - in his post earlier today (#534), moste memorably refers to Parkes in the Radio City broadcast as being ''one slice short of a loaf''. When I heard the broadcast, I actually wondered if Parkes was suffering dementia. That might present a fifth option. And just to add - options 2, 3 and 4 as you have listed are not mutually exclusive and may have all also influenced Parkes.

                                Best regards,
                                OneRound
                                hi OneRound

                                You are quite right that it could be a mix of options.

                                I'm not sure about the fifth option though. Parkes was clearly elderly at the time of the radio broadcast and his memory may indeed not be as sharp as it once was. However, that would not explain his contemporary telling of the story. Dolly Atkinson was clear that Parkes told her and her husband, Wilfred, the morning after the event. She says they had known Parkes for years and couldn't believe he would make up such a story. And her son, Gordon, says his family had talked about the car washing incident over the years. From this, I think Parkes did tell that story at the time but that does not mean it was true. Unless you believe all the Atkinsons are part of a conspiracy to lie about the story, the questions left are why did Parkes tell that story (hence the options I can think of) and what did the police do with the information? Was Hubert Moore in Parry's father's pocket?

                                Comment

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