Amy Wallace, was she involved?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I can't find corroboration they moved the next day from other books but Tom's. I felt I had seen it before? But I see Florence and John disagree about when they moved, whether it was Jan or Feb.

Florence says the boy had been frequently late. But I reiterate they have been picked up as deceitful, so don't take everything they say at face value. But if you believe them, yes he had been late often lately:

"The milk boy, Alan Close, called at my house that evening, but I cannot remember the exact time. He might come at any time between ten past six and seven, but recently he had been very late."

Thanks for that WWH. I still can’t recall reading that quote anywhere.

Ill read through the Munro questions when I get my pad back. If I try reading all that on a phone I’ll be absent for another four months!

[etenguy]

On top of that I think the man is probably gay. Given a lot of facts about the marriage I already mentioned and also the fact he always refers to his wife in platonic terms: companion, friend, comrade.

So anyway I think gay William's been sent to look for Men Love. Gordon thinks he's a queen and said so many years after. If I'm right he made a joke call he'd know there's no relation and therefore think William wanted Julia dead because he's a gay (which is what he alluded to to Goodman).

Gannon had two people tell him the man was a gay but the blog was deleted by him and Antony was emailed about the other one.

...Then I'd say it's some gay man wacking: Jilted or in league with William. William is laughable with details like names and addresses and if he made this all up then I would find it easy to believe he knew about West and meant West but pulled a "William". I see his first response to getting the message was to go to write West which I suggested (probably in one of my first posts) seems like he had EXPECTED that.

Perp then a gay who feels envy or hatred for the woman on the grounds that he's into William (I would say woman, but it sounds like William is a gay, so a man). And attacked her savagely for this reason. Which fits better on multiple levels because this person also doesn't have to worry as much about how messy the scene is unless he lives far away or has to use public transport.

Obviously if the John Parkes story is fully real then Gordon has to be involved not only in a joke message but directly in the crime. But Parkes' detail of the bar is wrong and that is a concern, and the lack of corroboration on those crucial points of the bar and glove which if true legit prove he's involved in the murder, is also jarring.

I would think Dolly would have jumped right on those things when corroborating the story... I do believe Gordon had a powerclean of his car, and I do believe Parkes is sure the man did it. Maybe in part due to his talks in the town about the fishing gear.

Just a thought WWH - but if you believe Wallace was gay, and his gay lover was an accomplice to murder - then could that explain Parkes statement if Parkes were the lover?

[WallaceWackedHer]

Just a thought WWH - but if you believe Wallace was gay, and his gay lover was an accomplice to murder - then could that explain Parkes statement if Parkes were the lover?

I would imagine he might. It would be dangerous for him to make statements like that if the events are proveably untrue, I would think he would just keep very quiet... But maybe...

He would also probably need a car to get away from the scene unless he lives nearby, I don't know if he was wealthy enough to have owned one. The attacker would have some blood on him almost definitely, and wouldn't want to be boarding trams and such in close proximity to so many people.

It depends on the stated facts, because I don't know if at the time he just said a nervous-seeming Gordon came in and watched over him powerclean his car, or whether he actually told people about this apparent bar and glove.

There wasn't corroboration of the latter though, was there?

Dolly just says about the clean, Gordon Atkinson just walks around showing where the car was cleaned. Neither say they were told about a bar or a glove, though that would basically be proof of guilt if actually true (albeit it must be a different bar-type implement made of iron as opposed to the parlour one). I should ask Wilkes about this matter of corroboration. He probably spoke to the witnesses beyond what was aired.

I don't think it is what took place as a #1 guess but a circumstance similar to that would be quite a good pick. William doesn't certainly need to be involved in the instance of a lover, but might be.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Do we really think that Moore, handed the solution to the case, wouldn’t have simply sent a constable or two to check the drain? After all, he was risking Parkes or one of his mates finding it (especially after William had been charged)

[etenguy]

Do we really think that Moore, handed the solution to the case, wouldn’t have simply sent a constable or two to check the drain? After all, he was risking Parkes or one of his mates finding it (especially after William had been charged)

Hi Herlock

The police did not seem to take Parkes' statement seriously at all. In an earlier thread someone suggested it was because they were content they had their man and didn't want to derail their case. But maybe it was because the statement, and perhaps the person making it, just didn't seem credible and they did not want to waste their time.

I still think the probable killer was Wallace, but if Parkes were positively disposed towards him, he might have borrowed a car from his garage to ferry Wallace to the tram stop, giving Wallace a bit more time and potentially a change of clothes, before washing the car when he got back.

[etenguy]

I don't think it is what took place as a #1 guess but a circumstance similar to that would be quite a good pick. William doesn't certainly need to be involved in the instance of a lover, but might be.

There is of course no evidence of a Wallace and Parkes association, but we do need to explain Parkes' statement and I think there are limited options:

a) It was true, as unbelievable as it sounds.
b) Parkes had a vendetta against Parry and wanted to drop him in it.
c) For some reason Parkes was helping Wallace - perhaps money, perhaps romantic or perhaps blackmail.

I think one of the three options above must be true, but we have no evidence to help us know which one.

[WallaceWackedHer]

There is of course no evidence of a Wallace and Parkes association, but we do need to explain Parkes' statement and I think there are limited options:

a) It was true, as unbelievable as it sounds.
b) Parkes had a vendetta against Parry and wanted to drop him in it.
c) For some reason Parkes was helping Wallace - perhaps money, perhaps romantic or perhaps blackmail.

I think one of the three options above must be true, but we have no evidence to help us know which one.

I'm pretty sure Parkes is totally convinced Gordon murdered the woman. Talking in the town to people with all the gossip about waders and stuff, and having his car cleaned out which is probably a real event.

The other details aren't corroborated (that is, the bar and glove).

Gordon likely did "borrow" waders for fishing, and he's not a very reliable type of person to actually give anything back. He's broke as dirt.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock

The police did not seem to take Parkes' statement seriously at all. In an earlier thread someone suggested it was because they were content they had their man and didn't want to derail their case. But maybe it was because the statement, and perhaps the person making it, just didn't seem credible and they did not want to waste their time.

I still think the probable killer was Wallace, but if Parkes were positively disposed towards him, he might have borrowed a car from his garage to ferry Wallace to the tram stop, giving Wallace a bit more time and potentially a change of clothes, before washing the car when he got back.

Hi Eten,

The issue for me with the suggestion that they’d fixed on Wallace and therefore ignored the inconvenient Parkes (although I accept that they had fixed on Wallace) is that Moore would have been taking a huge risk and we know that the polices reputation was hardly good at that time. What if, after Wallace had been charged, Parkes and a mate turned up at the local newspaper office with the story about Parry and how Moore had dismissed it and with the bloodied murder weapon in a bag?

[Herlock Sholmes]

There is of course no evidence of a Wallace and Parkes association, but we do need to explain Parkes' statement and I think there are limited options:

a) It was true, as unbelievable as it sounds.
b) Parkes had a vendetta against Parry and wanted to drop him in it.
c) For some reason Parkes was helping Wallace - perhaps money, perhaps romantic or perhaps blackmail.

I think one of the three options above must be true, but we have no evidence to help us know which one.

We know that Parkes had told Parry that he didn’t trust him and that Parry had been caught rummaging through cupboards were cash had been kept so maybe Parry wanted to drop Parkes ‘in it.’ Parry would have known that he hadn’t murdered Julia. He knew that he had a rock solid alibi. Maybe he heard about the murder then went to see Parkes deliberately acting as suspiciously as he could (with a dirty old mitten in the car) and hopes that Parkes will go to the police. Parry tells them he never went to the garage, he has his alibi, his clothing is checked for blood...nothing. Parkes gets labelled a liar and a time waster by the police. As has been said, Parry liked his pranks.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I forgot that I was going to ask opinions on a point. We know that Julia had some singeing to her skirt but it had also burnt a hole. It seems a little strange to me that there was absolutely no corresponding mark on her underskirt. Is it possible for it to have burned enough to cause a hole and left the underskirt unmarked?

[Ironmiller]

I forgot that I was going to ask opinions on a point. We know that Julia had some singeing to her skirt but it had also burnt a hole. It seems a little strange to me that there was absolutely no corresponding mark on her underskirt. Is it possible for it to have burned enough to cause a hole and left the underskirt unmarked?

Hi Herlock,
Is it possible the hole in the skirt was caused previously, a cigarette burn or something similar.

Regards
Steve

[etenguy]

We know that Parkes had told Parry that he didn’t trust him and that Parry had been caught rummaging through cupboards were cash had been kept so maybe Parry wanted to drop Parkes ‘in it.’ Parry would have known that he hadn’t murdered Julia. He knew that he had a rock solid alibi. Maybe he heard about the murder then went to see Parkes deliberately acting as suspiciously as he could (with a dirty old mitten in the car) and hopes that Parkes will go to the police. Parry tells them he never went to the garage, he has his alibi, his clothing is checked for blood...nothing. Parkes gets labelled a liar and a time waster by the police. As has been said, Parry liked his pranks.

A fourth option - just as possible.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,
Is it possible the hole in the skirt was caused previously, a cigarette burn or something similar.

Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

Ive wondered if it could have been caused earlier perhaps when she was drying her skirt. If that was the case that it would mean that Julia might not have fallen against the fire and that she might possibly have fallen where she was discovered. I can’t say anything for certain though but it just seems strange to me that it could have burned through into a hole without marking the underskirt at all.

[WallaceWackedHer]

A fourth option - just as possible.

Would you purposefully implicate yourself in a murder for fun? It doesn't sound like it'd be enjoyable having your house swarmed by cops and being investigated. It's also pretty sick to joke about having killed someone you're apparently friends with on the night of their death.

I thought Gordon considered Parkes to be a friend, hence stopping by for late night chats. There are various people he considered to be friends who seemingly didn't really like him. Poor Gordon...

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s just a matter of alternatives. Most likely Parkes just made it all up and then made some vague mention of it to the Atkinson’s later on. No mention of him talking to Moore in the files of course and this was after the police had already looked at Parry.