The Murder of Julia Wallace (1931) - Full DPP case files

[WallaceWackedHer]

If her head fell on the fireplace there would be blood there.
I think she was rolled over, after the Johnstons first saw her to uncover the mackintosh they found.

Yes I think so too, but it MUST have had, because she has fallen into that fireplace. I guess her bottom half could crumple one way and her upper half the other. But the head where it is, cannot be where it naturally fell.

Like I said before she can't fall straight into the fire from the chair IMO because it's too far away.

Without a struggle, and I feel sure the first strike put her out unconscious, the position of the body is very unnatural... You know though, they could have rotated the rug 180 degrees. Has anyone considered that? Because that would leave her feet in that position.

[WallaceWackedHer]

I have some other things I'd like to restate, develop on....

Julia was dirty, lazy, often ill and old…not very attractive traits in a spouse. If William was bossy, dominating etc. then wouldn’t some of his instructions have been, clean yourself up, clean the house up etc.? Julia was doing NOTHING. What was Julia bringing to the relationship?

How explosive would it have been to be thinking you made the wrong decision in life to then find out your lazy, dirty, unloving, childless wife was not only 53 when you got married 16 years ago, she was therefore now 69!!

Did William watch his 37 year old wife age two years to his one, for 16 years? (and/or not notice it?)

I agree with Herlock that they were not the happy couple outsiders believed them to be (I can't remember reading anywhere that someone said they were...some customers and Mr Crewe liked William...customers and boss hmmm.... but not anyone else mentioning the "couple"). The best picture would always be painted by the invisible, paid help i.e. Mrs. Wilson and Dr Curwen.

Rumours about William’s sexuality and or affairs are just that, rumours. Even if Julia found out about either, she was not in any position to blackmail him. She was bringing nothing to the relationship and would lose the income and roof over her head that William was providing. If she was told of William’s dalliances, wouldn’t that person (who was brave enough to tell Julia) have gone to the police to help provide a motive?

I look at the photographs inside the house and it doesn't look dirty. They had a charwoman who came and cleaned for them.

There is really nothing to say he just found out about her age or whatever lol. I think it's something he might have told his friends (about her age I mean) before it occurred to him to do her in.

If he did find out and decide to kill her then it happened in January I think because the diary entries are corroborated as true.

The maid hadn't seen them together often but said when she did they were on good terms.

They did argue once, William told her off for buying too many newspapers. Although it was years earlier. No recent arguing which you might expect if there had been a sudden realization of something angering.

What I might suggest as a motive would be anything relating to a loss of control. So for example if he THOUGHT Julia was banging Parry or overly flirty or something. And then framing him would make sense... He could have the guy put in a call on a false pretext and then he knows the guy's torally F-d because there's not gonna be any alibi.

[Ven]

If her head fell on the fireplace there would be blood there.
I think she was rolled over, after the Johnstons first saw her to uncover the mackintosh they found.

[WallaceWackedHer]

"I don't think she "fell" on the mackintosh, I think the killer has moved her body and it's ended up on top. Well actually I KNOW he did (move her) because the feet are on the opposite side of the room than they should be."

When you say opposite i assume you mean from the left of the fir place to the right? Hmm maybe maybe not.. however i do remember reading somewhere that the Johnstons said the pictures don't show where her actual body position was compared to when they found her!

So what you're saying is they've bludgeoned her,, struck matches to have a look at the damage, disposed of the matches on the mackintosh and then moved her body to on top of the mackintosh? hmmm Nup.

I've seen a drawing by Munro (embarrassingly bad drawing) showing the original position. It seems to me like she was rolled over maybe?

Her head if she fell into the fireplace would not have been on the rug naturally, she's been pulled out of the fire and plonked down there. I do not know why she was rolled over.

[WallaceWackedHer]

It’s difficult to see a hunch as reasoning. The matches aren’t evidence of loitering around? How can you think that it’s logical that he killed Julia, turned off the lights and then lit matches to go back inside for a look?



And now you say that they wouldn’t steal anything after Julia was dead? Then there’s absolutely no reason to have stuck around. You must see this?



Neither of those things would have taken any time. The fire was out. This doesn’t mean that it was put out. Fires go out if untended.

It was a gas fire so it wouldn't go out unless turned out I think. It does only take a second.

I don't think there's no reason to loiter, but it depends of course.

If a makeshift weapon from the house was taken which I don't think it 100% definitely was, I think it implies fear of fingerprints so no gloves on whoever wielded it. There are a few things in any case someone might stick around for. A fear that perhaps they left something incriminating, wanting to check she's dead and so on.

So I don't think it's open and shut.

For William it would be the latter, he would have surveyed the wounds etc. I'd think.

[Ven]

So whoever turned off the gas fireplace, turned off the gas lights... I believe leading to William...he didn't want the place to burn down and put a time to the murder.

[Ven]

Wasn't it a gas fireplace?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yeah a hunch, I think they loitered. There is evidence for it because of the spent matches including in the folds of the jacket implying someone stayed there using matchlight, maybe inspecting the wounds who knows.

It’s difficult to see a hunch as reasoning. The matches aren’t evidence of loitering around? How can you think that it’s logical that he killed Julia, turned off the lights and then lit matches to go back inside for a look?

They wouldn't steal more after Julia's dead, certainly not. Not once they all know what's happened.

And now you say that they wouldn’t steal anything after Julia was dead? Then there’s absolutely no reason to have stuck around. You must see this?

We do know that POTENTIALLY something from the home (something like a bar) was taken. We know a fire was put out.

Neither of those things would have taken any time. The fire was out. This doesn’t mean that it was put out. Fires go out if untended.

[Ven]

Re the moving of the body. I think they (the Johnstons) said it was rolled not so much moved. I believe this because if it was moved there would be a pool of blood where her head use to be. Her lower torso could have been moved without moving the head...and no blood transfer issues if they are moving her by the feet.
Re the blood (or lack thereof). WWH, you mentioned in one Post (I looked but cant find it) that the assailant/intruder would have been covered in blood ergo the room would have been too, but it wasn't...it was only in one corner. There was no other blood found anywhere. Even if he stripped off in the parlour there would be other blood in the room. If she was hit after she went down, without her head being covered, the swinging, bloody pipe would have sent splatters everywhere.

[Ven]

I have some other things I'd like to restate, develop on....

Julia was dirty, lazy, often ill and old…not very attractive traits in a spouse. If William was bossy, dominating etc. then wouldn’t some of his instructions have been, clean yourself up, clean the house up etc.? Julia was doing NOTHING. What was Julia bringing to the relationship?

How explosive would it have been to be thinking you made the wrong decision in life to then find out your lazy, dirty, unloving, childless wife was not only 53 when you got married 16 years ago, she was therefore now 69!!

Did William watch his 37 year old wife age two years to his one, for 16 years? (and/or not notice it?)

I agree with Herlock that they were not the happy couple outsiders believed them to be (I can't remember reading anywhere that someone said they were...some customers and Mr Crewe liked William...customers and boss hmmm.... but not anyone else mentioning the "couple"). The best picture would always be painted by the invisible, paid help i.e. Mrs. Wilson and Dr Curwen.

Rumours about William’s sexuality and or affairs are just that, rumours. Even if Julia found out about either, she was not in any position to blackmail him. She was bringing nothing to the relationship and would lose the income and roof over her head that William was providing. If she was told of William’s dalliances, wouldn’t that person (who was brave enough to tell Julia) have gone to the police to help provide a motive?

[Ven]

BTW Herlock, nice paper. I agree mostly LOL!...just a few minor changes.

[Ven]

"I don't think she "fell" on the mackintosh, I think the killer has moved her body and it's ended up on top. Well actually I KNOW he did (move her) because the feet are on the opposite side of the room than they should be."

When you say opposite i assume you mean from the left of the fir place to the right? Hmm maybe maybe not.. however i do remember reading somewhere that the Johnstons said the pictures don't show where her actual body position was compared to when they found her!

So what you're saying is they've bludgeoned her,, struck matches to have a look at the damage, disposed of the matches on the mackintosh and then moved her body to on top of the mackintosh? hmmm Nup.

[WallaceWackedHer]

"Yeah a hunch, I think they loitered. There is evidence for it because of the spent matches including in the folds of the jacket implying someone stayed there using matchlight, maybe inspecting the wounds who knows."

I think this contradicts an earlier point you made that she fell on the mackintosh and it was not pushed under her. If they struck matches AFTER the attack then they couldn't be in the folds of the mackintosh.

BTW matches would have been everywhere, Julia didn't clean and they used matches all the time...no light switches, Bic lighters etc.

Yes you're quite right...

Though being in the folds suggests it was after the attack. I'm thinking it means inside/on top of the jacket in one of the folds not underneath.

I don't think she "fell" on the mackintosh, I think the killer has moved her body and it's ended up on top. Well actually I KNOW he did (move her) because the feet are on the opposite side of the room than they should be.

I don't think they are old matches because they are - I think it means - on top of the jacket. Hence newly deposited.

It's a very weird thing. It actually makes me wary of a red herring.

[Ven]

I haven't been on much lately, but might get some time tonight. Every time i go to Post something you guys have moved on, so my Posts might be all over the place...but I'll catch up.

[Ven]

"Yeah a hunch, I think they loitered. There is evidence for it because of the spent matches including in the folds of the jacket implying someone stayed there using matchlight, maybe inspecting the wounds who knows."

I think this contradicts an earlier point you made that she fell on the mackintosh and it was not pushed under her. If they struck matches AFTER the attack then they couldn't be in the folds of the mackintosh.

BTW matches would have been everywhere, Julia didn't clean and they used matches all the time...no light switches, Bic lighters etc.