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The Murder of Julia Wallace (1931) - Full DPP case files

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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    We all tend to assume that the singeing on Julia’s skirt was done at the time of the murder but might it not be a bit of a red herring? Perhaps it got singed at another time and if she only ever intended to wear it around the house.....

    I genuinely don’t see the cat as important. I think that someone has simply done a bit of imaginative thinking.
    I think it was, because the scorch marks are horizontal matching the grid of the fireplace. So unless she had fallen into it previously... It seems highly likely it was done at the time.

    The cat might be imaginative thinking, but you have to wonder by WHO. Because what sort of person could know something so weird and unknown, as well as the cat's name that I've never seen anywhere before.

    It's like something you can't make up almost. It'd be like someone coming forward saying something about the missing wood chopper that was found. It's like the kind of thing where it's so obscure, that the only people who could ever come out with it would be those utterly OBSESSED with the case, or someone who knew the Wallaces personally.

    I think John might have truly said it but is delirious with dementia. Or I think "Stan" might be putting something out there that he knows, and just being like ohhh yeah Johnston said it.

    See what I mean?

    That's why I think it's important. Not so much because of the theory, but due to the fact that someone even KNOWS that fact. If it was like, a well known fact it'd be like "meh", but when it's soooo out there and unknown you have to take it seriously.

    Honestly as much badmouthing as Slemen gets, I will say to you that I have personally been able to verify every single claim in his book (ones ONLY in his book not others). For example the robbed home was #19 and the homeowner WAS Samuel Shotton and he WAS a postman.

    There really WAS a Dan (whatever his last name is, I put it in my prior post) who worked as a ship joiner living at 30 Menlove Gardens... Just it's Menlove South not West so a little mistake there.

    I think I verified Johnston's late-life address too.

    So when I keep constantly doubting the guy and time after time it's showing me he's actually telling the truth, it makes me wonder if some of the other things I doubt him on (such as the crime scene at 19 having a targeted strike on savings from a pot and the pot put back) are also true.

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=WallaceWackedHer;
      I think Gustafson is the one I said was a disgrace on my site. If that is the one then yeah, that book is honestly an utter disgrace. She thinks Parry is called Reginald for example, just zero effort leeching off of Wilkes' info.

      Wyndham-Brown's online for free so I didn't bother with that. But I have all the rest just not Waterhouse. I also have some weird (maybe unpublished) one. It's a bunch of paper stapled together rather than a book. It doesn't have any new info but still.

      Oh and I have magazines, I have the "Murder Can Be Fun" one and some more.

      I can watch the old 70s Wallace movie, the Yorkshire TV one, but only watch. Which is annoying. They have a special place you go to view it, copies are illegal.

      [/QUOTE]

      i haven’t seen that movie. I didn’t know it was possible to view? Yup, I’ll give Gustafson a miss I think. Rowland is available for just under 30 perhaps I’m tight but..... I might just get it before the next copy is back up to 100.

      There are online stuff which you’ll also have like Chess And The Wallace Case.

      ok sod it, I’ve ordered Rowland.
      Regards

      Herlock






      "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        i haven’t seen that movie. I didn’t know it was possible to view? Yup, I’ll give Gustafson a miss I think. Rowland is available for just under 30 perhaps I’m tight but..... I might just get it before the next copy is back up to 100.

        There are online stuff which you’ll also have like Chess And The Wallace Case.
        If you want to see the movie you have to contact the BFI or something (British Film Institute?). It's basically like the Kew national archives but for film. They have that film there and you can book to go see it.

        The Rowland book is decent it's just that 50% or more of it is a retelling of the trial.

        Hussey's book might be one of my favourites. It's hard to remember though, I've read so many I forget which ones are which and which ones I liked.

        Lustgarten's book is VERY good but there won't be anything new for us in it. I really like that one, really well written.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WallaceWackedHer View Post

          If you want to see the movie you have to contact the BFI or something (British Film Institute?). It's basically like the Kew national archives but for film. They have that film there and you can book to go see it.

          The Rowland book is decent it's just that 50% or more of it is a retelling of the trial.

          Hussey's book might be one of my favourites. It's hard to remember though, I've read so many I forget which ones are which and which ones I liked.

          Lustgarten's book is VERY good but there won't be anything new for us in it. I really like that one, really well written.
          I’ve got the Hussey book but I know what you mean about forgetting content. It’s why I’d like to make time to re-read all of the books and make notes.

          The BFI have an amazing collection but I’ve contacted them in the past. I collect Sherlock Holmes stuff and the BFI have an early version of The Hound Of The Baskervilles that no one can access. They won’t do single copies unfortunately. It’s almost as bad as Andrew Lloyd bloody Webber who owns the rights to some very early silent Holmes movies which he appears to just want to keep to himself! I contacted his company twice but got no response.

          Theres also Goodmans novel about the case of course. Well, it’s based on the case but with different locations and names. I do have it but I can’t recall much about it and I only read it a couple of years ago.
          Regards

          Herlock






          "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WallaceWackedHer View Post

            I do have the Winifred Duke one I think. I neglected to mention a few on my site. I have all the others you listed.

            I think Gustafson is the one I said was a disgrace on my site. If that is the one then yeah, that book is honestly an utter disgrace. She thinks Parry is called Reginald for example, just zero effort leeching off of Wilkes' info.

            Wyndham-Brown's online for free so I didn't bother with that. But I have all the rest just not Waterhouse. I also have some weird (maybe unpublished) one. It's a bunch of paper stapled together rather than a book. It doesn't have any new info but still.

            Oh and I have magazines, I have the "Murder Can Be Fun" one and some more.

            I can watch the old 70s Wallace movie, the Yorkshire TV one, but only watch. Which is annoying. They have a special place you go to view it, copies are illegal.
            .
            Hi WWH - I would be very grateful if you could set out how it is possible to watch the Yorkshire tv movie. It is of massive and never ending frustration to me that I knew in his final years the actor and lovely man Eric Longworth who played Wallace in this production but only found that out after his death. Consequently, I never discussed the case with him which I would have relished.

            Many thanks,
            OneRound

            Comment


            • Originally posted by OneRound View Post
              .
              Hi WWH - I would be very grateful if you could set out how it is possible to watch the Yorkshire tv movie. It is of massive and never ending frustration to me that I knew in his final years the actor and lovely man Eric Longworth who played Wallace in this production but only found that out after his death. Consequently, I never discussed the case with him which I would have relished.

              Many thanks,
              OneRound
              Simply use the BFI:

              "A viewing copy of ‘Who Killed Julia Wallace? (1975) is held in the BFI National Archive, and may be available to view for non-commercial research and study purposes. If you would like to arrange a viewing of this title using the BFI’s Research Viewing service, please find further details here: www.bfi.org.uk/archive-collections/searching-access-collections/research-viewing-services."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WallaceWackedHer View Post

                Simply use the BFI:

                "A viewing copy of ‘Who Killed Julia Wallace? (1975) is held in the BFI National Archive, and may be available to view for non-commercial research and study purposes. If you would like to arrange a viewing of this title using the BFI’s Research Viewing service, pleasesee find further details here: www.bfi.org.uk/archive-collections/searching-access-collections/research-viewing-services."
                Many thanks, WWH. Hopefully, I'll be able to get along to the BFI to see this before long. Frustrating though, as you say, that it's not more easily available.

                Best regards,
                OneRound

                Comment


                • Originally posted by OneRound View Post

                  Many thanks, WWH. Hopefully, I'll be able to get along to the BFI to see this before long. Frustrating though, as you say, that it's not more easily available.

                  Best regards,
                  OneRound
                  No worries. If you can manage to secure a copy I'll buy it for us all to put on my site.

                  Comment



                  • I think it was, because the scorch marks are horizontal matching the grid of the fireplace. So unless she had fallen into it previously... It seems highly likely it was done at the time.
                    It’s the likely explanation but it might have occurred whilst it was being dried at some point. Placed too close to the fire or perhaps it was over the back of a chair but slid off. No way of knowing of course.

                    These days we would have a had a police photo of course.
                    Regards

                    Herlock






                    "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                      It’s the likely explanation but it might have occurred whilst it was being dried at some point. Placed too close to the fire or perhaps it was over the back of a chair but slid off. No way of knowing of course.

                      These days we would have a had a police photo of course.
                      They'd have to have placed a chair next to the fire for it to fall off the back and for that to happen... This woman did dress in homemade clothes etc so it's possible, but when you have strong evidence something was burned on that fire grid, combined with her skirt having burn marks matching that fire grid, it seems overwhelmingly probable it happened at the same time.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by WallaceWackedHer View Post

                        They'd have to have placed a chair next to the fire for it to fall off the back and for that to happen... This woman did dress in homemade clothes etc so it's possible, but when you have strong evidence something was burned on that fire grid, combined with her skirt having burn marks matching that fire grid, it seems overwhelmingly probable it happened at the same time.
                        I agree. The likelihood is that it occurred at the same time as the mackintosh got burned.
                        Regards

                        Herlock






                        "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                        Comment


                        • You know what's curious though... I know exactly what type of fireplace that is. It's a Wilson's Sunbeam Gas-Fire. Why does Gannon and others reference horizontal burning and grids. Where is the grid? I've been through loads of advertisements in old newspapers. It's a really peculiar type of fireplace and I'm not sure how it works/looks when lit.

                          'Sunbeam'—the GAS fire like coal fire! Wilson's patent "Sunbeam" has all the advantages of a gas-fire and has the genial, merry appearance of the old-fashioned coal-fire without its dirt and trouble. No need to disturb your coal grate—remove the front bars, place the "Sunbeam" in oosition and connect gas supply. Finished in handsome egg-shell black.
                          Can anyone figure out how this bloody thing works? I don't get it.

                          Comment


                          • I feel like the adverts are saying, by "no need to disturb your coal grate", that a grate like this is left in place:



                            And the gas fire fitted into it or behind it or something. So the burning would be from the grate on her skirt. Right? And the actual exposed fire, by looking at adverts, would not be protected, and would allow for very direct contact without protection.

                            So the skirt could be scorched on the grid, and something like the mackintosh makes contact with the ACTUAL fire part, hence why it's set so badly ablaze. This is how the Sunbeam fireplaces looked:





                            To me, that "fire" part seems COMPLETELY exposed?????

                            ---

                            And yet...

                            I don't see any gridlike thing on the parlour fireplace:



                            Let me bust out my magazine because it has a mega close up.
                            Last edited by WallaceWackedHer; 02-14-2020, 05:59 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Ah yes, I knew my MURDER CASEBOOK magazine would come to the rescue... The photographs in this thing are like Blu-Ray quality lol:



                              So I do see there's like a grid pattern but it's right at the bottom... I don't know how the fire actually operates. I'll keep looking.

                              I just know that it's meant to look like a coal fire despite being gas:



                              They sold a few different variants but mostly they look the same as each other.

                              I can only assume it is operated very similar to this:



                              So basically an actual fire is lit, and then like you see there it has some fake logs for decoration. So maybe those "coals" are fake coals for decoration on the Sunbeam in the same way.

                              In that case the actual base of the flames would be at the bottom, where the "grid" looking thing is.
                              Last edited by WallaceWackedHer; 02-14-2020, 06:12 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Why didn’t they take a photo of her skirt so that we could actually see whether it matches up?!

                                We could do with an older poster who remembers this type of fire.
                                Regards

                                Herlock






                                "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                                Comment

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