The Murder of Julia Wallace (1931) - Full DPP case files

[WallaceWackedHer]

I’m currently following your lead by writing my own version of events. Whether it will be of interest to anyone is another matter of course. I’ve done 4,500 words so far have just got William arriving to search for MGE.

Well I'm sure it will be, I found that stuff actually came to me that I didn't notice before in the midst of writing so it appears helpful...

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’m currently following your lead by writing my own version of events. Whether it will be of interest to anyone is another matter of course. I’ve done 4,500 words so far have just got William arriving to search for MGE.

[WallaceWackedHer]

I certainly wouldn’t say that it’s impossible that someone could have gotten in using the method that you’ve suggested. It’s certainly not a far fetched idea in itself. As I said though my issue would be the call which I’m utterly convinced was connected to the crime and was quite deliberate. I also believe that Richard Gordon Parry played no part in this crime at all but it’s unlikely that we will ever agree on that one unless new evidence surfaces and I’m forced to change my opinion. Another issue for me is that even after such a paltry haul there was zero effort made to look for cash or valuables. I realise that this wasn’t exactly a great piece of robbery staging but with Close being late and William realising that he was under time constraint plus the increased stress of knowing he’d have to convince the police that he hadn’t killed Julia could easily explain this.

I'm suggesting that Parry is involved and placed the telephone call, I just think it strengthens my idea some, since now I can prove that it was actually commonplace for multiple people to enter properties at the same time.

Don't worry about staging time because that's going to be done in advanced anyway, I have never counted that time against him. I've always considered he would do it before he kills Julia or conversely, after he goes into the home with the Johnstons waiting outside.

Parry seems to use "his girl" as his default excuse when lying and put on the spot... Picking up his young lady Lily from somewhere he can't remember on the day of the telephone call, his girl's 21st when surprised by a request from Beattie to call back later, "late for an appointment with his girl" as an excuse for why he was trying to steal a car (years later, that is).

Once Julia has been killed, if they just went in there to rob the place, that's the END of the robbery right there and then when they realize what's happened. At that point it's gone horribly, horribly wrong and it's time to run the F away as it were.

Given more than one person in the house, there's a lot of permutations. And there's actual news reports from the time suggesting this was a very common M.O. for housebreaking at the time.

It's bizarre, in one of the reports for example, one of the burglars randomly incinerated some (but not all) of the notes he had stolen when he thought he might get caught. Others shoved jewelry down drains. It makes me wonder if maybe that blood-smeared note WAS left/placed in the pot given what I'm reading happened in some of these other cases. But you know me I randomly brainstorm all the time.

[Herlock Sholmes]

They're not the only ones. There was the same thing in St. Helens, Liverpool with a different gang, all with skeleton keys, breaking into homes with two or more people at a time in 1930. Some of the gang were like mid 20s so it's not even just a kid thing.

And then the string of "duplicate key" burglaries in Anfield, 19 Wolverton Street being hit just a month prior. This was very clearly a super common crime at the time, dupe keys and multiple intruders. Multiple gangs carrying out strings of 20+ skeleton key robberies all over Liverpool in all different districts around the time when Julia was murdered. With break ins happening at Menlove Gardens almost a month to the day earlier - the burglars being remanded for a week it would seem, and/or fined.

I'd say this is good evidence that multiple people entering a home was not remotely out of the ordinary, and well I already knew the skeleton keys being rife thing.

The similarities outweigh the single difference by quite a lot. It's a significant finding. I'm positive Gordon called the club anyway...

But it does help give credence to the idea of two people having entered the home to burgle it. Like I said it's obviously common that many housebreakers were working that way in groups of 2 to 4 at a time.

I certainly wouldn’t say that it’s impossible that someone could have gotten in using the method that you’ve suggested. It’s certainly not a far fetched idea in itself. As I said though my issue would be the call which I’m utterly convinced was connected to the crime and was quite deliberate. I also believe that Richard Gordon Parry played no part in this crime at all but it’s unlikely that we will ever agree on that one unless new evidence surfaces and I’m forced to change my opinion. Another issue for me is that even after such a paltry haul there was zero effort made to look for cash or valuables. I realise that this wasn’t exactly a great piece of robbery staging but with Close being late and William realising that he was under time constraint plus the increased stress of knowing he’d have to convince the police that he hadn’t killed Julia could easily explain this.

[WallaceWackedHer]

Interesting stuff but it’s difficult to connect them due to the phone call.

They're not the only ones. There was the same thing in St. Helens, Liverpool with a different gang, all with skeleton keys, breaking into homes with two or more people at a time in 1930. Some of the gang were like mid 20s so it's not even just a kid thing.

And then the string of "duplicate key" burglaries in Anfield, 19 Wolverton Street being hit just a month prior. This was very clearly a super common crime at the time, dupe keys and multiple intruders. Multiple gangs carrying out strings of 20+ skeleton key robberies all over Liverpool in all different districts around the time when Julia was murdered. With break ins happening at Menlove Gardens almost a month to the day earlier - the burglars being remanded for a week it would seem, and/or fined.

I'd say this is good evidence that multiple people entering a home was not remotely out of the ordinary, and well I already knew the skeleton keys being rife thing.

The similarities outweigh the single difference by quite a lot. It's a significant finding. I'm positive Gordon called the club anyway...

But it does help give credence to the idea of two people having entered the home to burgle it. Like I said it's obviously common that many housebreakers were working that way in groups of 2 to 4 at a time.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Interesting stuff but it’s difficult to connect them due to the phone call.

[WallaceWackedHer]

Okay so I think I found something important here.

Josh and I were thinking about the use of the address, when I was looking for similar addresses (e.g. a South, East, West, no North or whatever), it took me hours, trying to use both older tech like directories of streets, and modern tech like Google Maps...

Well, I also noticed the person used 25 East, which suggests (50/50 odds at least) that he knows West is odd numbers. So it seems someone knows the Gardens fairly decently (residents living there, some of them didn't seem sure there was no East). Then I remembered something I read on the British Newspaper Archives...

Liverpool Echo, 30th December, 1930:



On December 21, John James Hughes, David Martin, and James Herbert King, had all broken into a property in Menlove Gardens. All three at once.

Liverpool Echo, 12th January, 1931:



What it notes here as well, is that multiple gangs are "linked" to each other. These are apparently housebreaking gangs operating in Allerton. But we know that there was also an "Anfield Housebreaker" believed to be one person. 19 Wolverton Street was robbed in December. I remember reading there had been something around the same figure (20 to 30) housebreakings in Anfield as well... Here in Allerton there seems to be 29.

As you will see, these burglars are breaking into homes in pairs or even threes.

Items appear to have been chucked down grids, which is what Parkes said Parry told him was done with an iron bar.

[WallaceWackedHer]

It might interest you to know that I have accidentally managed to verify yet another claim in disgraced lunatic Tom Slemen's writeup on this case.

His tale about the officer Fred Williams (the first officer at the scene) telling Robert Coope years later after recognizing him in hospital, that he had something important to tell him about the case and Wallace is innocent - is true. When Coope returned 3 weeks later, himself having succumbed to influenza, Fred Williams was dead.

This fact has been corroborated by Jonathan Goodman.

Unless both are wrong... Then depending on how active Williams was in the investigation, for him to come to that conclusion there must have been something he found during his investigations (or was told later in life)... If he was only a minor part of that investigation, going over the few things he DID investigate and report could be of paramount importance.

Also any newspaper reports from him, if any hint at something he knew exists veiled in those.

[WallaceWackedHer]

Can anyone prove that Joseph was not in town when the crime was committed ?

Im still putting my money on him being the accomplice, that rode the trams ,while his brother Bill Herbie, did the dastardly deed!

What did Joe’s Steam ship passage ticket look like? Dates etc..

I can try to find that information but how would I go about getting it? I don't suppose a ticket will still be available for example.

I don't think it will be the right answer but it's worth looking since Sidney Green called Wallace 5'10.

[moste]

Can anyone prove that Joseph was not in town when the crime was committed ?

Im still putting my money on him being the accomplice, that rode the trams ,while his brother Bill Herbie, did the dastardly deed!

What did Joe’s Steam ship passage ticket look like? Dates etc..

[moste]

I can’t see a problem with a scenario where Julia is attacked while standing at the mantle piece. Bottom of her dress ,plus bottom of the Macintosh are burnt in a momentary tussle before she is smote to the floor with the first of the blows.Macintosh across her shoulders falls to the carpet with her dropping down onto it. Wallace may well have used something else to shield himself with , before destroying it on the coal fire. ( incidentally, incinerating anything on the kitchen gas stove is just plain daft! ). I really like Grandma’s idea about Wallace being a gay man, This introduces a very believable motive into the situation . This may have been covered before on here , but I can visualize a serious problem with the Wallace’s where Julia has ridiculed,taunted, and even threatened her husband about his homosexuality. Thus provoking him beyond the point of no return, Anyway that’s is one possible reason for someone to want to smash this ladies head to a pulp! Can anyone think of another?

[moste]

Here is the relevant info from the website. The last paragraph is apparently supplied by Gannon from police interviews;

"My Great Grandfather who had lived in the next street from where we lived, (we were at Number 4 Hunt Street); had owned a carpenter's shop. He had lived in the next street to us, Fowler Street; and the family had been in that area since the turn of the century, spanning 50 years.

Gradually the story emerged that the Qualtrough name was on the workshop wall and that anyone walking past could make a note of it. The shop was in nearby Windemere Street. The actual murder scene had been in nearby Wolverton Street.

.....

William Qualtrough, 146 Molyneux Rd and Shop at 74 Windemere St (around the corner from Stephen's Great Grandfather's house in Hunt St.) at home and Olympia (a cinema at the time.) Builder and Jointer. Can give no information."

A couple of interesting situations re- Windermere street ,Apart from a handful of terraced houses at the north end of Windermere st. Of which 74 may be the gap between them that has been demolished, I was surprised to find the bulk of this street running south had no actual houses on it , because what you have is the backs of houses from the next street over, in other words what would normally be found to be a back alley , is actually a full blown street , never seen this before, and incidentally the houses are easily as old as those in Wolverton st.
Another slight coincidence . The streets in this neighbourhood are named after the lakes of far north west England. Millom where Wallace was born and grew up, and (as posted before ,)where the highest percentage of Qualtroughs lived in that era,(not counting Isle of Man) So for Wallace to make the statement ‘strange name never heard it before’ is actually a lie.

[WallaceWackedHer]

Here is the relevant info from the website. The last paragraph is apparently supplied by Gannon from police interviews;

"My Great Grandfather who had lived in the next street from where we lived, (we were at Number 4 Hunt Street); had owned a carpenter's shop. He had lived in the next street to us, Fowler Street; and the family had been in that area since the turn of the century, spanning 50 years.

Gradually the story emerged that the Qualtrough name was on the workshop wall and that anyone walking past could make a note of it. The shop was in nearby Windemere Street. The actual murder scene had been in nearby Wolverton Street.

.....

William Qualtrough, 146 Molyneux Rd and Shop at 74 Windemere St (around the corner from Stephen's Great Grandfather's house in Hunt St.) at home and Olympia (a cinema at the time.) Builder and Jointer. Can give no information."

Nice, that information doesn't appear in Gannon's book by the looks of it, but he may well have provided it to the creator of the website. Is the wall thing definitely true?

If so then definitely it is another way the name could have cropped up.

Although I think that in very high likelihood, with the way things align, it's meant to be the Prudential client. Even if it was William I think he was trying to frame Marsden. He basically limited the suspect pool to Parry and Marsden. He gave a lot of names but made it very clear those two were his prime suspects, and then it just so turns out one of those has a client with almost the exact same name.

It would be a massive stroke of luck if a simple coincidence, and there really is no other good reason for a guilty Wallace to use the name if it's actually seen as important to the plan... And again a massive coincidence if it was someone who did not know Marsden at all, who just so happened to use that name for no good reason not knowing about the client.

I'm surprised Gannon didn't include that statement, it seems very important. Walton Road which is the Qualtrough he mentions is much further away.

[Joshua Rogan]

Here is the relevant info from the website. The last paragraph is apparently supplied by Gannon from police interviews;

"My Great Grandfather who had lived in the next street from where we lived, (we were at Number 4 Hunt Street); had owned a carpenter's shop. He had lived in the next street to us, Fowler Street; and the family had been in that area since the turn of the century, spanning 50 years.

Gradually the story emerged that the Qualtrough name was on the workshop wall and that anyone walking past could make a note of it. The shop was in nearby Windemere Street. The actual murder scene had been in nearby Wolverton Street.

.....

William Qualtrough, 146 Molyneux Rd and Shop at 74 Windemere St (around the corner from Stephen's Great Grandfather's house in Hunt St.) at home and Olympia (a cinema at the time.) Builder and Jointer. Can give no information."

[WallaceWackedHer]

I vaguely remember it being discussed here a few years ago, and this site by a Mr Qualtrough refreshed my memory. He references Gannon's book so I think it must be in there somewhere.

http://www.qualtrough.org/articles/a...m-wallace.html

It's Thomas Qualtrough who owns the butcher's shop which is in Walton. The carpenter is a person the book doesn't mention. But what's interesting is now I look at it, I don't think Gannon confirms the butcher's store was actually NAMED Qualtrough's.

Same with that carpenter store I should imagine.

I have Gannon's book on Kindle so I searched Windermere and carpenter and got nothing. The Qualtrough segment mentions the shop sign myth (that it's near a phone box) and says nobody with that surname near the box owned a shop except the butcher at 108 Country Road. It doesn't say that's the store's name though like I said.