The Croydon Poisonings

[kidtwist]

I have the Jullian Fellowes DVDs and I agree those are excellent shows. I wonder why BBC America doesn't show things like that rather than endless reruns of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

In any case, while I was impressed by Fellowes theory, I still think Grace Duff is the most likely to have been the poisoner. Fellowes' theories for all those cases are quite ingenious. I wish he'd do another series of that show.

[sdreid]

Yes, Fellowes had some interesting "solutions" but the only one I agreed with was Errol.

[Penny_Dredfull]

the Croydon Poisonings

Louisa- hope you enjoy the series if you find it.

To answer your question- the other two murders covered are those of Rose Harsent, a servant girl, in England 1902; and the Earl of Erroll in Kenya 1941.

I wish Mr. Fellowes would make a new series as well- but I think he's too busy with his latest series Downton Abbey, a period drama being shown now on PBS.

[louisa]

Hi Penny

I've just purchased the Julian Fellowes DVD from eBay. It was £17.95 so I'll copy it and then put the original back on eBay.

I'm looking forward to it. I see it contains other interesting murders.

I'm going to take a LOT of convincing that Grace wasn't the murderer though. She had the motive (always short of cash) and the opportunity. She also appeared to have rather a suppressed neuroticism, prone to hysteria, if witnesses are to be believed.

Tom was always very open in his dealings with the police and the Coroner.

It's probably quite easy for a writer to fit the facts to his theory. Diane Janes accused RWE of doing exactly that. However she herself was guilty of exactly the same thing in her book.

[sdreid]

The Erroll case was the subject of the movies White Mischief and The Happy Valley.

In the DVD extra, Fellows says that they might do more including cases from other countries such as America but apparently those plans didn't workout. If I recall, the only limits were that the murder happened after the development of photography and before the end of capital punishment so, in Britain at least, that would be roughly 1840-1964; certainly a rich reservoir.

[louisa]

I've just watched the 'Julian Fellowes Investigates..' DVD and I was disappointed.

I know this story backwards, sideways - every which way! So I started spotting errors in this film immediately.

The first scene shows Violet taking medicine from a FULL bottle. Anyone interested in this true life crime will know that Violet took the last liquid from the bottle (which was laced with arsenic).

They made Grace into a blonde when in fact she was a 'striking brunette'.

This is one movie where I suspect the real life characters were actually better looking than the actors portraying them!

Kate Noakes was happy at 29 Birdhurst Rise. She was not the fat miserable slattern portrayed by Fellowes.

Tom and his American wife Margaret were a happy couple and if they ever argued, which they probably did as most couples do, then it was never reported. Tom was also very successful in his line of work and had plenty of jobs lined up. He had a lot of money in the bank as well so the couple and their children could easily have gone to America if they had wanted to.

They only decided to go to America after the murders when they were 'advised by Scotland Yard to put as much distance as possible between himself and his sister'.

On a more trivial note - the furnishings were all wrong for the 1920's. People lived in dark rooms crowded with big furniture and knick knacks on every surface. The paintwork was always brown and there would have been dreary wallpaper. The furnishings and colour schemes in the Fellowes film were of present day - plain pale aqua coloured walls and bright white paintwork.

Other details were incorrect as well. Edmund didn't just turn up (back home from his fishing holiday) during a garden party. He was met at the station by his wife Grace and his son John.

Grace HAD to be the murderer. It seems that Fellowes imbellished the truth in order to fit the facts to his theory, albeit an interesting one.

[louisa]

....And another thing - Grace did not know that her Aunt Gwen was visiting until the morning of the SAME day. Fellowes tells us that she knew the day before. It's an important point that he managed to get very wrong.

[sdreid]

I found the Fellowes theory interesting but was not won over. Since I am not any kind of expert on the case, I suppose I was able to enjoy the presentation blissfully.

[belinda]

I saw this on A Most Mysterious Murder. It is certainly very interesting. I don't know much about it. I would certainly like to know more. I wonder if there wasn't more than one murderer

[louisa]

The definitive case history on the Croydon Poisoning is the book 'The Riddle of Birdhurst Rise' by Richard Whittington-Egan.

You'll find it fascinating. Guaranteed.

[sdreid]

I believe Tom Sidney wrote an autobiography but I think, that although published, it is quite rare. To date, I have not actually looked for it. I saw somewhere that he lived until about 1980. If he is the culprit, he has to be one of the most diabolical murderers of all time. Surprisingly, I don't think this case is in Wiki unless I was searching it wrong.

[Rosella]

I believe that Grace Duff murdered her mother and sister for monetary reasons, and have done so ever since reading 'The Riddle of Birdhurst Rise' about twenty five years ago. Surely though the premise that Tom Sidney took his wife and family off to live in the U.S. on the advice of Scotland Yard is rather flawed?

Unless the inheritance from Mrs Sidney, Tom's mother, was tied up in some way, surely there would be no pecuniary advantage in Grace killing her brother? If he died suddenly in some mysterious way the money he had would be left to his wife and family, you would think.

Maybe both Tom and Scotland Yard had the feeling that Grace was getting used to the poisoning process and was going to kill again, just for the hell of it!

[caz]

Maybe both Tom and Scotland Yard had the feeling that Grace was getting used to the poisoning process and was going to kill again, just for the hell of it!

Exactly Rosella. Another person's motives are only guesswork after all, and sometimes any financial gain is secondary - or a bonus - as in the case of Harold Shipman.

If a relative of mine was strongly suspected of bumping off their nearest and not so dearest - for whatever reason - I think I would be well advised to put as much distance between us as possible!

Love,

Caz
X

[sdreid]

I too think Grace is the most likely culprit although I admit that Fellowes' theory is very intriguing and covers all the bases.

[belinda]

After reading the foreword in the Whittington Egan book I believe Tom Sidney was the killer not Grace