Crippen- Almost 100 Years

[Chris]

I think anyone suggesting that Crippen might have been innocent has to come up with some kind of plausible alternative explanation of how the human remains came to be in his cellar, particularly as - to all appearances - they were accompanied by fragments of a pyjama jacket which he had bought the previous year.

[belinda]

I think the term is " Fitted Up".

Court Testimony On Remains

AUGUSTUS JOSEPH PEPPER . I am a Master in Surgery, London University, F.R.C.P., consulting surgeon to St. Mary's Hospital, and have been in active practice as a surgeon for about 35 years. On July 14 I went with Dew to 39, Hilldrop Crescent and met Dr. Marshall there. In the cellar I found that part of the floor had been pulled up, and in a hole in the ground I saw what appeared to be animal remains. I looked at the soil to see what it was composed of, and found it was partly loam and partly clay. Mixed with these there was lime. The remains were removed to the mortuary in a shell. They included, besides some tufts of hair, a large piece of flesh composed of skin, fat, and muscle from the thigh and lower part of the buttock of a human being, and another small piece. The head was missing, and there was no bone or part of a bone, but, except the organs of generation, all the internal organs were found. On July 15 I found a piece of skin with some fat attached to it measuring 11 in. by 9 in. that came from the upper part of the abdomen and lower part of the chest. I found another piece of skin 7 in. by 6 in. which came from the lower part, the front portion of the abdomen. A mark upon it attracted my attention, and I afterwards examined it with great particularity, spending several hours on the examination; I came to the conclusion that it was the mark of a scar. The scar would have been visible upon the skin. When that piece was in position on the human body it would be in the middle line in front; it may have been a little to the left; it began just above the pubes and extended for 4 inches or a little over. The whole scar was complete, there being a piece of flesh beyond it. It was quite an old scar. I found no trace of genitals at all; there were no certain anatomical indications of sex. There was pubic hair upon the piece of flesh. There were also found with the remains fragments of a woman's cotton combinations and a portion from the neck part of a pyjama jacket; the latter bore the maker's label, "Shirt makers, Jones Brothers (Holloway), Limited, Holloway, N." The same label appears on the jackets of the two suits (Exhibit 76). Judging by the way in which the viscera had been extracted, I think it must have been done by a person skilled in removing viscera—skilled in dissection; I do not say skilled in dissection of human beings, but in evisceration of animals; there was no cut or tear in any part, except where it was necessary for the removal; all the organs were connected together; he diaphragm or the septum between the chest and the abdomen had, of course, been cut round; such an operation would certainly require skill. There were none of the organs of generation; some of these may have been removed during life; the scar I saw was such as would be occasioned by an operation for the removal of the pelvic organs, or the ovaries, or both combined.

[Chris]

I think the term is " Fitted Up".

But have you ever heard of a case in which the police planted decomposing human remains in the house of a suspect in the way you're suggesting? I have to say it sounds like a complete flight of fancy to me.

[belinda]

It is also fanciful to say that Crippen would so carefully dispose of the majority of the body and then ever so carelessly leave a bit behind

[Chris]

It is also fanciful to say that Crippen would so carefully dispose of the majority of the body and then ever so carelessly leave a bit behind

It may seem a little odd, but do you really think it is less likely than that the police should conspire to steal decomposing human remains and bury them in the cellar, in order to frame him?

[Mitch Rowe]

It is also fanciful to say that Crippen would so carefully dispose of the majority of the body and then ever so carelessly leave a bit behind

It is not...Not if normal lime were used instead of quicklime. as far as I can recall of reading the case this is what Police said happened. if quicklime were used the flesh would have decomposed. But lime was used wich actually served to preserve the flesh.

[belinda]

They had all ready searched the house and admitted to finding nothing.
This was a very serious crime they were trying to convict him of he hadn't just been fiddling the books.
The Police had free access to the house while Crippen was on the way to Canada.

It is more than a little odd that somebody who had gone to the lengths Crippen is supposed to have to dispose of the body would leave enough behind to get himself convicted.

The amount of remains found could easily have been taken from a dissecting room.

[belinda]

It is not...Not if normal lime were used instead of quicklime. as far as I can recall of reading the case this is what Police said happened. if quicklime were used the flesh would have decomposed. But lime was used wich actually served to preserve the flesh.

See above post with doctors testimony

[Mitch Rowe]

So.. If Crippen would have used Quicklime the body parts may have decomposed. At least to an unrecognizable state perhaps. But it is my understanding that lime will preserve flesh so Crippen made a big mistake.

The fact though is that lime was found so evidently Crippen intended to rapidly decompose the body parts.

Now if it could be proved that Crippen would have known the difference, then that would be a point towards the defense.

[Adam Went]

Not sure I agree with it being some sort of police conspiracy but it is fair to say that somebody like Crippen would have been smarter than to bury the remains in his own cellar - he could have just taken them down to the Thames one night, for instance, disposed of it there, decomposition would have taken place much quicker and then even if the police had continued to sniff around his house, there would have been nothing to find. He was a doctor, after all, he would have known about all of this.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Chris]

Not sure I agree with it being some sort of police conspiracy but it is fair to say that somebody like Crippen would have been smarter than to bury the remains in his own cellar - he could have just taken them down to the Thames one night, for instance, disposed of it there, decomposition would have taken place much quicker and then even if the police had continued to sniff around his house, there would have been nothing to find. He was a doctor, after all, he would have known about all of this.

But there still has to be an explanation of the remains in the cellar - apparently accompanied by the incriminating fragments of the pyjama jacket.

[Adam Went]

Chris:

But there still has to be an explanation of the remains in the cellar - apparently accompanied by the incriminating fragments of the pyjama jacket.

Previous residents of 39 Hilldrop Crescent? No idea who they were or when they were there, though I do remember reading that Crippen took in lodgers even during his time there - as for the pyjamas, that's a pretty generic piece of evidence.

There's been a movement just recently to have Crippen post-humously exonerated, so clearly there's a strong case to be made for his innocence.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Chris]

Previous residents of 39 Hilldrop Crescent? No idea who they were or when they were there, though I do remember reading that Crippen took in lodgers even during his time there - as for the pyjamas, that's a pretty generic piece of evidence.

If I understand correctly, the pyjamas were proved to have been manufactured after Crippen moved to Hilldrop Crescent and he was proved to have bought three pairs in 1909 (though he claimed it was 3 or 4 years earlier), one jacket of which was missing. So really that evidence is pretty specific.

[jmenges]

as for the pyjamas, that's a pretty generic piece of evidence.

For a more specific piece of evidence, how about the the hair curler (identified as Cora's) with many strands of hair (matching Cora's) also found in the pit in the cellar? Don't forget, Cora's pajama's and her hair curler were buried in the grave with her remains.

You might ask, well then why was the hair not tested for DNA, as hair gives much more accurate results than tissue? The answer depends on when you asked them. Initially they claimed to make no effort to locate anything other than a slide from the trial. Later, they changed their story for television to say that the Black Museum's price to give Trestrail access to the hair was too high.

Adam also said

"There's been a movement just recently to have Crippen post-humously exonerated, so clearly there's a strong case to be made for his innocence."

This movement, initiated by one of Saddam Hussein's former attorneys (Di Stefano) on behalf of JP Crippen, has failed.

JM

[apricot]

Not sure I agree with it being some sort of police conspiracy but it is fair to say that somebody like Crippen would have been smarter than to bury the remains in his own cellar - he could have just taken them down to the Thames one night, for instance, disposed of it there, decomposition would have taken place much quicker and then even if the police had continued to sniff around his house, there would have been nothing to find. He was a doctor, after all, he would have known about all of this.

Cheers,
Adam.

David James Smith in his book "Supper With The Crippens" does indeed summise that Crippen did dispose of parts of Cora in the river, hence no head or limbs found in the cellar, but something of someone spooked him one night, his bottle went and he decided to bury the remainder closer to home.

KR Angie